Balance and design are really 2 different questions.
PE in Coh1 is viable but relative to the base factions its poorly designed. OKW when Volks had Schreks was 'viable' but yet it got completely redesigned.
The problem you raised of 'giving DAK an option to counter LVs rush before getting a Rad', is actually fixed in my MOD due to rejigging the tech tree, making Paks and Panzerjägers more available.
Regarding balance, I actually have the total opposite view, I really think they should do the design changes first and then balance after, as the balance will always change after the design does. For instance, the nerfs they are making to the base stats of the Wirbelwind for Wehr right now make little sense to me because, presuming they make the call-in tech dependent like they did in Coh2, its performance will change after to reflect the tech costs being factored into it. Its the same with DAK, I don't see how this design will not change in the long term.
As for why change it, I explain this in my initial post; the aggressive linearity, the kinda broken deployment system etc. But have you tried out my MOD? You could give it a go and see which you prefer? I'm totally open to changing things based on feedback and reasoned argument.
To re-iterate, I think making the design concrete should be what the devs should prioritise right now over balance.
The way the faction is designed works, what it needs is balance. So a soft counter vs LVs could be re-balancing the HT-AA or by giving an option for the 250 upgrade. PZgren are just overpriced for what they deliver, nothing to do with design. There is no need to mix everything when Relic can just move the cursor for individual unit. |
I don't know why you want to reinvent the wheel with DAK, the faction design is more than viable atm, the problem is overall faction balance, giving DAK an option to counter LVs rush before getting a Rad and rebalancing PG to something relevant.
Then from Light tanks to heavy tank the Marder does the job of counter and the Pz3 once upgraded goes toes to toes with anything Allied faction can field. |
Brit Tommies are simply too strong with whatever upgrade you give them. Then if you add the guards, gurkhas , commandos it becomes simply an OP faction.
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I once experienced a PG vet1 / LMG in green cover losing to a Tommy vet1 reco squad with no cover on a mid range fight. Almost lost the unit because I thought they would win and didn't supervise them. |
Why do you need to combine arms when you can play brit and exclusively build tommies boys, create 3 blobs and counter anything. No need to build a single vehicle or tech, you counter everything in the game. |
I like double PzGren openings but I'll echo Garrett's point, they're vulnerable to snipers, so perhaps leave that for against the Desert Rats. To that end, the Assault Grenadier battlegroup is an -OK- sniper counter, but arrives fairly late, and can be easily countered by screening Bazooka teams or ABZooks. ALSO If the US Player streamlines their build there's a good 3-4 minute window where you're vulnerable AND you lose the Panzer Jager squad which is the only thing that can bridge the gap until an 8Rad.
It's rough out there for DAK in duels.
I see the Bersaglieri spammed in conjunction with the Spaghetti Tank often, Guasto's are fun but arrive late and are susecptible to the above, perhaps even to a worse degree.
In the tests I was going:
Pio
250
250
L.Support
Combat Half-tracks
-> Upgrade 250's to MortarHT
Guasto
Fire Support Elements
Guasto
Pak38-B.Gruppe
Healing Opel
Not sure that works anymore.
Whatever you decide on I think it needs to involve getting an 8 Rad out ASAP.
Atm 250 are bad and badly overpriced and impossible to vet. Mortar HT is only relevant vs teamweapon spam.
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Reading people responses, I've updated a bit my build and included a 250 before Light Company so I can fit a flamer inside and roam a bit earlier, I had some success in a game vs a vetjeep start shutting him down and forcing early surrender with 80% of the map under control.
I also faced a path/sniper start and wow, para can drop so early, its disgusting. I think my build is good enough vs sniper because PanzerPioneer are rather cheap and long range so you can put some pressure on him and at the same time cap the rest of the map. On the other hand panzergrenadier are so bad its pathetic, I only build a squad to tank and let the panzerpioneer do the killing :/ |
While I can talk from 2s perspective, that BO looks like "I want to be massacred by M3 quad" kind of BO, which arrives before you can get jagers and counters jagers.
Wut? I don't get you. If he build a M3 quad I can build a Rad or pick Italian infantry or combined arm. What other unit do you build on the 3 first minutes of the game that counter the M3 quad? I can also decide to go T1.5 and get a pak38.
But share your build, I'm curious about it. |
Curious about it. I tried so many and failed so much that I felt really bad until I found one working quite positively with all doctrines till now.
I share mine but I'm curious about other.
Starting PanzerPioneer
2x PanzerPioneers
1x Panzergrenadier
Light support companie
1x Assault grenadier
Then it depend on what my opponent is doing.
The 3 panzerPioneers allow me good capping power while retaining enough firepower and the really good point about this build order is that you don't wait, you can queue the 2 panzerPioneers right from the start and once the second is built you almost have 300mp for the panzergrenadier.
The panzergrenadier provides enough stopping power for the first push associated with a Panzerpioneer and once I have the assault grenadier squad I can start pushing left and right.
Then it depends on the map and faction, I usually go Mechanized companie so I can pump a fast marder if I need it but it also depend on the doctrine I select.
If you present you build order for other mode, just specify it on your respond, I haven't played a single teamgame so far and I'm also curious about it. |
Panzergren combined arms provides +20% accuracy, movement speed, ability range and -20% received accuracy, it literally turns them from Conscripts into vet 2 Penal Battalions from the get go. If you don't utilize this feature then just stop playing DAK because you're playing this faction completely wrong.
https://coh3stats.com/players/1447?view=recentMatches
I see it the other way around, a 300mp unit that is hampered from 1/3 of its stats until/unless you park a 260mp unit with low value around it.
So to rephrase it, DAK is having early powerspike, which on its own possible because enemy don't have counters to it. For me this is called struggling, because this is CoH2 all over again, where you are forced to play in one particular way in order to have your ground. And its not similar to a wehr situation, where other options are still alright, but Luft was just the strongest of them therefore always picked.
As for counters, idk, UKF can have IS+IS+rifle nades or Dingo+IS+rifle nades. Dingo is destroying 250 super hard and getting nades early isnt hurting UK economy over-all. While PGs under CA is a bit stronger, green to green cover its still a long stalemate. Not to mention that boys are bugged vs LVs right now.
The bonus range is quite large, you don't need to park your 250 on the frontline. But again why would you build a 260mp unit meant to fight if it isn't to use it on the frontline. |
Trying to figure out how you're supposed to play DAK now. |