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Rifles overperforming?

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9 Oct 2019, 01:24 AM
#221
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358



Falls got multyple things changed and buffed.
Dps buffs effecting all ranges plus first strike bonus. cp,s lowered, vet recc acc buffed, price buffed.

Rifles got a dps increase at short to mid range......

So no irony here my friend.



Im pretty sure that if devs buff volks in any way, the most insignificant buff will trigger a bloated reaction, the same you just ironically pointed i was making, that was made to mirror the one before.

So my point is not only still standing but also was proven.

I dont really care about it TBH, people overreact every time they dont like what they see, im not personal neither, i just elaborated to the end my point because it was necessary.

Im fine if FSJ get a nerf ATM, i just said what i disagree but i can be wrong too.
9 Oct 2019, 01:37 AM
#222
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

Why nobody touches commandos from UK? Their wiping potential is huge. Thry can equip at weapons and have lots of abilities including demos, retreat with smoke, powerful gammons, are larger squads and also get first strike bonuses. I don't see much difference here.
9 Oct 2019, 01:42 AM
#223
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Why nobody touches commandos from UK? Their wiping potential is huge. Thry can equip at weapons and have lots of abilities including demos, retreat with smoke, powerful gammons, are larger squads and also get first strike bonuses. I don't see much difference here.

Long range dps is the difference. Retreat from bayonet range and commandos arnt going to wipe you. Retreat from falls an you are getting equally fucked by every bullet.
9 Oct 2019, 02:14 AM
#224
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

Why nobody touches commandos from UK? Their wiping potential is huge. Thry can equip at weapons and have lots of abilities including demos, retreat with smoke, powerful gammons, are larger squads and also get first strike bonuses. I don't see much difference here.


PIAT commando anyone :v
9 Oct 2019, 03:00 AM
#225
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351


Long range dps is the difference. Retreat from bayonet range and commandos arnt going to wipe you. Retreat from falls an you are getting equally fucked by every bullet.


In ambush scenarios you just hard retreat anyway. 4 men squishy squad vs close range more durable - seems fair. Also you can always give brens to commandos. They are more versatile.
9 Oct 2019, 03:19 AM
#226
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 784

Does anyone actually have a replay or a video of bren commandos being used competitively
9 Oct 2019, 04:35 AM
#227
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289



Im pretty sure that if devs buff volks in any way, the most insignificant buff will trigger a bloated reaction, the same you just ironically pointed i was making, that was made to mirror the one before.

So my point is not only still standing but also was proven.

I dont really care about it TBH, people overreact every time they dont like what they see, im not personal neither, i just elaborated to the end my point because it was necessary.

Im fine if FSJ get a nerf ATM, i just said what i disagree but i can be wrong too.


Okay people overeacted to the rifle buff.

If they buff volks in any miniscule way the reaction will indeed be heavy too because volks are incredebly efficient, while also having true non doc elite and a very strong engi as backup. All in all more efficient overall then all other factions imo at least.

Because how strong/cost effective okw,s non doc inf is is the reason they substantionaly buffed falls to this extreme. Why would they get use them other wise?
9 Oct 2019, 06:21 AM
#228
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

Does anyone actually have a replay or a video of bren commandos being used competitively

No, because its used exclusively in cheat mod tests and dps chart boasts.
9 Oct 2019, 06:42 AM
#229
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 783

Does anyone actually have a replay or a video of bren commandos being used competitively



Tightrope posted a 2v2 with them recently.
9 Oct 2019, 09:24 AM
#230
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Does anyone actually have a replay or a video of bren commandos being used competitively
do we have any game where falls are spammed competitively ?
9 Oct 2019, 12:12 PM
#231
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



In ambush scenarios you just hard retreat anyway. 4 men squishy squad vs close range more durable - seems fair. Also you can always give brens to commandos. They are more versatile.

My point is that retreat won't save you against falls like it will commandos because of the range difference. Old falls were fine, good if used properly but punishing if used poorly. Now you get good results using them like volks and even better if you ambush. You can't really use them wrong which is a bad design. The small sample size from testing didn't reveal it as such unfortunately but live game is proving problematic.
9 Oct 2019, 12:48 PM
#232
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351


My point is that retreat won't save you against falls like it will commandos because of the range difference. Old falls were fine, good if used properly but punishing if used poorly. Now you get good results using them like volks and even better if you ambush. You can't really use them wrong which is a bad design. The small sample size from testing didn't reveal it as such unfortunately but live game is proving problematic.


I must trust You on that - however, I do get the feeling that when axis confronted uberpowerful commandos, it was l2p and adapt issue from many allied players perspective (and to those shocking then gammon bombs!). Now I regularly kill whole squads with commandos; be it demos, gammons or just close range amushes and nobody wants to admit they are v. powerful. When it is the axis it gets changed a tad too quickly and too much, instead of players' adapting. I'm ok with them being more expensive (recent nerf), maybe even more but I'd leave them where they are for some time (maybe see what happens in a tournament?).
9 Oct 2019, 16:05 PM
#233
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



I must trust You on that - however, I do get the feeling that when axis confronted uberpowerful commandos, it was l2p and adapt issue from many allied players perspective (and to those shocking then gammon bombs!). Now I regularly kill whole squads with commandos; be it demos, gammons or just close range amushes and nobody wants to admit they are v. powerful. When it is the axis it gets changed a tad too quickly and too much, instead of players' adapting. I'm ok with them being more expensive (recent nerf), maybe even more but I'd leave them where they are for some time (maybe see what happens in a tournament?).


Commandos main cheese and role was, stay cloaked, throw nuke nade and wipe a squad. Something OH can also do after changes to camouflage and PG.
They are only good at that and they pay for it in their cost acquistion and having the worst infantry based vet in the game.

This is why they can't be compared IMO cause they have completely different strengths, usage (Commando/Falls) and scaling.
9 Oct 2019, 16:15 PM
#234
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Commandos main cheese and role was, stay cloaked, throw nuke nade and wipe a squad. Something OH can also do after changes to camouflage and PG.
They are only good at that and they pay for it in their cost acquistion and having the worst infantry based vet in the game.

This is why they can't be compared IMO cause they have completely different strengths, usage (Commando/Falls) and scaling.

that is no longer accurate, commandos vet bonus have increased allot and combined with base stat make the unit scale well...

vet 1 passive healing , Unlocks light smoke grenade
Vet 2 +35% speed during ambush for 3.25 second, +30% accuracy, 25% grenade range
Vet 3 0.9 received accuracy, Squad drops a big smoke grenade on retreat
9 Oct 2019, 16:31 PM
#235
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Oct 2019, 16:15 PMVipper

that is no longer accurate, commandos vet bonus have increased allot and combined with base stat make the unit scale well...

vet 1 passive healing , Unlocks light smoke grenade
Vet 2 +35% speed during ambush for 3.25 second, +30% accuracy, 25% grenade range
Vet 3 0.9 received accuracy, Squad drops a big smoke grenade on retreat


Which infantry units are you comparing this to which would have worse stat bonuses than this?
To my knowledge 30% acc and no cooldown is quite low as is .9 RA

For comparison tommies have 25% acc, -20% cd and .77 RA as vet bonuses

Back to topic :romeoHairDay:

To build 3 rifles and an officer now costs 50 manpower more. Mabye this will have an impact on how effective rifles are in the first 6-7 minutes as it would be equivalent losing almost 2 extra models. I think this is a nerf though not directly to stats. Mabye after the mini-patch we should re-evaluate the rifles OP question.
9 Oct 2019, 16:35 PM
#236
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Which infantry units are you comparing this to which would have worse stat bonuses than this?
To my knowledge 30% acc and no cooldown is quite low as is .9 RA

For comparison tommies have 25% acc, -20% cd and .77 RA as vet bonuses
...

Combat bonuses are low but base stat are very high. For instance target vet 3 for commandos is 0.65 and for IS is 0.62. And on top of that Commandos get a smoke grenade on retreat making very difficult to wipe.

But on top of the combat bonuses they get, 5 more things...
9 Oct 2019, 17:17 PM
#237
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Oct 2019, 16:15 PMVipper

that is no longer accurate, commandos vet bonus have increased allot and combined with base stat make the unit scale well...

vet 1 passive healing , Unlocks light smoke grenade
Vet 2 +35% speed during ambush for 3.25 second, +30% accuracy, 25% grenade range
Vet 3 0.9 received accuracy, Squad drops a big smoke grenade on retreat


I know, and it still the worst infantry vet in the game (IB4 engineers). I'll be honest that i forgot the speed buff on ambush, but nevertheless, my statement is still true. If the word "worst" triggers you, i'll consider the vet worst than:

Con, Penal, Guard, Shock, Partisan, Gren, PG, Osstruppen, Ass G, Storm, Jaeger, Rifles, RE, LT, Cpt, Ass Eng, Pathfinders, Cavalry, Paras, SP, Volks, Ober, PF, JLI, Falls, IS.

9 Oct 2019, 17:35 PM
#238
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



I know, and it still the worst infantry vet in the game (IB4 engineers). I'll be honest that i forgot the speed buff on ambush, but nevertheless, my statement is still true. If the word "worst" triggers you, i'll consider the vet worst than:

Con, Penal, Guard, Shock, Partisan, Gren, PG, Osstruppen, Ass G, Storm, Jaeger, Rifles, RE, LT, Cpt, Ass Eng, Pathfinders, Cavalry, Paras, SP, Volks, Ober, PF, JLI, Falls, IS.


Commandos vs Paras

vet 1
passive healing , Unlocks light smoke grenade vs -25% ability recharge time
point goes to Commandos

vet 2
+35% speed during ambush for 3.25 second, +30% accuracy, 25% grenade range vs +25% accuracy, +25% grenade range, Passive Healing
point goes to Commandos

Vet 3
0.9 received accuracy, Squad drops a big smoke grenade on retreat vs -20% weapon cooldown, -29% received accuracy
point goes to Paras

All and all better RA accuracy bonus (but worse total number) vs 0.5 accuracy and -20% weapon CD on top of that Commandos get healing earlier a smoke grenade and smoke bomb on retreat.

I would call them in line.
9 Oct 2019, 17:38 PM
#239
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Oct 2019, 17:35 PMVipper

Commandos vs Paras

vet 1
passive healing , Unlocks light smoke grenade vs -25% ability recharge time
point goes to Commandos

vet 2
+35% speed during ambush for 3.25 second, +30% accuracy, 25% grenade range vs +25% accuracy, +25% grenade range, Passive Healing
point goes to Commandos

Vet 3
0.9 received accuracy, Squad drops a big smoke grenade on retreat vs -20% weapon cooldown, -29% received accuracy
point goes to Paras

All and all better RA accuracy bonus (but worse total number) vs 0.5 accuracy and -20% weapon CD on top of that Commandos get healing earlier a smoke grenade and smoke bomb on retreat.

I would call them in line.


Okay Commandos are tied for the 16th best veterancy instead of the 17th best veterancy out of ~20 infantry squads :romeoPls:
9 Oct 2019, 17:42 PM
#240
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Commando vet is also quite tailored to their role. Statically it might not look great but instead of just making them generally better all round it makes them much better at what they are supposed to do.
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