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OKW September patch discussion

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24 Aug 2019, 05:41 AM
#381
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 839

these "gun shields" means pretty much nothing since on real situations you be either firing from max range or moving your AT away from infantry which completely negates the shields.
24 Aug 2019, 09:23 AM
#382
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4306

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2019, 05:41 AMzerocoh
these "gun shields" means pretty much nothing since on real situations you be either firing from max range or moving your AT away from infantry which completely negates the shields.
lol,so u are saying green cover and shoot blocker means nothing to tanks sheel ? if it's not a problem remove it form all at gun :snfPeter:
24 Aug 2019, 10:12 AM
#383
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3217

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2019, 05:41 AMzerocoh
these "gun shields" means pretty much nothing since on real situations you be either firing from max range or moving your AT away from infantry which completely negates the shields.


I'd hardly describe 50% damage reduction as 'pretty much nothing'.
24 Aug 2019, 12:11 PM
#384
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8285 | Subs: 1

OKW
Teching & Faction changes



Although the early power of the faction has been toned down I really do not see they mid power going up. The "earlier" access to obers will have little impact without an LMG and its debated able even if it going to earlier since it will depend on the placing of the T4 building and on leaving it without defence.


Starting resources



OKW economy changes:
-40 manpower
+5 fuel
If they use trucks +60 manpower
If they use 4 VG -40 manpower

Total +5 fuel -20 manpower.
Instead of these changes I would suggest the simpler solution of reducing 20 manpower and increasing the built time of VGs, since there will be a smaller impact.

Schwerer Panzer Headquarters



The changes although in a good direction they will make aggressive use of the truck even less attractive since it will be undefended. One could try the following reduce the time of the deployment of the truck so that the total time of a factional T4 truck remain the same.

In addition allow the AA gun to fire on targets manually, make the AA mode a toggle more with a CD for changing mods.

Revert the chagne of Hetzer and Ostwind to call-in unit but keep the tech requirement so that the units are available even if T4 is lost, to make the doctrines more appealing.
24 Aug 2019, 13:11 PM
#385
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8285 | Subs: 1

Volksgrenadiers



Imo changing the reinforcement cost across the same type of units should be avoided since it is difficult to compare the units (having a different cost for the same type makes sense. For instance have cheaper reinforcement for CQC units since they are expected to have more losses).

Once more I would rather see a increase in the built time than the cost something that could also help make Kubel more attractive.

Imo problem with VG is more than they cost and it their overall efficiency that make other infantry option less attractive. Changes could include:
Swap incendiary grenade for frag or reduce range of incendiary grenade by around 5. Change the DOT damage all in hold to true and maybe reduce damage slightly.

Replace the MP44 upgrade with the MP-40 upgrade or replace the 2 MP44 with 5 MP with on semi automatic that use a profile close to m1.

Sturmpioneers



Imo further changes could made like:
Lower price to 280 and lower Pop.
Replace 2 MP 44 with 2 Mp40 or 2 K98. Offer the weapon of the 2 extra MP44 as weapon upgrade locked behind a truck.
Replace the concussion grenade with incendiary or WP from vet 0.


MG 34 HMG



Change seems solid and it was I problem I had pointed out when the DPS of the crew was lowered.

Kubelwagen


There is little reason for damage reduction, it is allot simpler to revert some of the armour changes. In addition one should increase the window of opportunity of the unit by reducing the built time and lowering the penetration of its counter mg (like wc51, m3a3, UC). One can (if possible) remove mg and offer it as upgrade and thas lowering the price.

Raketenwerfer 43



There are many issues with the unit that imo are not addressed so I would recommend the following:
1) There is little reason to different camo mechanism across faction, either the camo should work like soviet one or the soviet one as the "new" RW
2) Camo as vet 1 bonus seems lacking imo it should provide some extra bonus like first strike bonus or +5 vision when in camo or garrison or a rotation bonus when in garrison
3) The vet bonuses need an overhaul since the unit get very little bonuses when in garrison (maybe allow the unit to cloak when in garrison also?)
4) The reaction time of the unit is very making the unit bad vs moving targets they should be lowered.
5) units should be locked to first truck set up while PF available at Truck being built.
6) one could lower the penetration of the unit but add deflection damage similar to most rocket munition allowing OKW to fight heavily armed vehicles even without the Panther.
7) Imo the unit can still lose gunner very easily so the 5 man might help the unit survive but not fight. Damage reduction could help the unit survive initial shots.

Sdkfz. 251/17 Flak Halftrack



Tiger II



Making the gun's performance more reliable is a step in the right direction.
If one keep the current implementation of Super heavies one should probably offer the KT a discount since it comes later and cost more. I would even tempted to lower the lethality of the unit while also lowering the chance of penetration from allied TDs so it more durable but less lethal.
24 Aug 2019, 13:14 PM
#386
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 617

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2019, 12:11 PMVipper
OKW
Teching & Faction changes



Although the early power of the faction has been toned down I really do not see they mid power going up. The "earlier" access to obers will have little impact without an LMG

+1
24 Aug 2019, 13:44 PM
#387
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8285 | Subs: 1

Opel Blitz



The unit is simply completely OP allowing OKW to apply too much pressure. In addition from design point of view it badly design since it make T1 redundant and making LeIG incendiary barrage even less attractive. Instead for making the unit more powerful make easier accessible with more utility.

Suggestions:
1) Reduce CP 1-0 remove healing reduce MP cost 150 and remove fuel cost.
2) One can add a lock down option that allows a single unit to retreat to it, similar to ostheer urban assault doctrine.
3) Lower the bonus to ability recharge but allow team weapon to benefit from it also.
4) increase sight to 40 so the unit can avoid conflict.
5) Add shared veterancy and vet bonuses.

LeIG 18 ISG Incendiary Barrage


Suggestions:
1) Move flamer upgrade to this ability since it make more sense. Rename to "incendiary weapons"
2) Move anti-garrison AOE damage from initial blast to DOT set to hit all in hold if there is a need to. The changes aim to allow reaction time but be more punishing if player does not react.
3) Make the ability more flexible making offer bonuses to T2 units also. The ability could provide WP rounds for Puma or for Stuka. For stuka it could fire 2 incendiary rockets for 60 munition could vs garrison.
4) Add flame grenades for SP
5) Change the MP-40 upgrade for VGs to a new unit so that they can be better designed for the role.

Flammpanzer 38t ‘Hetzer’



Suggestions:
1) Make unit a call in so it available even T4 is destroyed. Change tech requirement to 2 trucks so increase building diversity.
2) Remove the DOT damage, add a ability that creates DOT.
3) Since the unit has not turret and exposes rear armour increase rear armour to around 110
4) overhaul vet bonuses reducing the offensive bonus for some defensive like target speed or HP bonuses.
5) Is it possible to add hidden damage to entities on death (maybe with a death critical at low HP) and thus increase the XP gain?
24 Aug 2019, 13:52 PM
#388
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8285 | Subs: 1

Overwatch Flares

Solid change

Sector Assault

Have not tested enough seem like a solid change.

Commander Suggestion:
Replace vet 5 ability of the LeFh with a healing costing 10 munition.
24 Aug 2019, 13:59 PM
#389
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8285 | Subs: 1

Radio Silence



The combination of no mini map information and faster speed might be a bit too much, maybe at some decap/cap speed instead?

Command Panther



Solid changes

Infiltration Grenades


Solid changes
24 Aug 2019, 14:04 PM
#390
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4306

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2019, 13:59 PMVipper
Radio Silence



The combination of no mini map information and faster speed might be a bit too much, maybe at some decap/cap speed instead?

???? the point of the ability is being unseen, capping is like the opposite :snfPeter:
24 Aug 2019, 14:09 PM
#391
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8285 | Subs: 1

???? the point of the ability is being unseen, capping is like the opposite :snfPeter:

Yes but one will have the option either to use to flank or to cap. If the bonus is not very big (like breakthrough) one can keep the price the same.

The idea is to make the ability more flexible instead of stronger.
24 Aug 2019, 14:28 PM
#392
avatar of Mcq_knight

Posts: 42

Now that command panther has been somewhat nerfed, in addition to earlier changes last few patches, can we look at removing its exclusivity with KT?

Yes they would make a strong combo, but with that much free floating fuel it should be an option. I feel this would help in 4v4s when allies reach critical mass of AT and something is needed to spearhead.
24 Aug 2019, 14:29 PM
#393
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2368 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2019, 13:44 PMVipper
In addition from design point of view it badly design since it make T1 redundant and making LeIG incendiary barrage even less attractive.

A commander doesn't need 5 strong abilities that all need to be used simultaneously. Offering a high amount of versatility is just as valuable. The Opel Blitz was specifically redesigned to offer an alternative to medics so the commander will offer versatility so people can use it for a variety of different build orders and strategies.


jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2019, 13:44 PMVipper
2) Move anti-garrison AOE damage from initial blast to DOT set to hit all in hold if there is a need to. The changes aim to allow reaction time but be more punishing if player does not react.

DOT spreads on ground level and does not affect units that are on the top floors of higher garrisons. The AOE was changed specifically to help deal damage to units in large/high garrisons regardless, as that is one of the primary uses of the incendiary barrage.


jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2019, 13:44 PMVipper
Flammpanzer 38t ‘Hetzer’

Suggestions:
1) Make unit a call in so it available even T4 is destroyed. Change tech requirement to 2 trucks so increase building diversity.

The Hetzer is too powerful to put behind a potential 15/25+15/45 gate. It easily 1v1s anti-tank guns and AT infantry and can't be pushed off without armor. The current 80 fuel for the first phase of the SPHQ is already pushing its shock timing to the limit.
24 Aug 2019, 15:27 PM
#394
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8285 | Subs: 1


A commander doesn't need 5 strong abilities that all need to be used simultaneously. Offering a high amount of versatility is just as valuable. The Opel Blitz was specifically redesigned to offer an alternative to medics so the commander will offer versatility so people can use it for a variety of different build orders and strategies.

Yes a commander does need 5 strong abilities, actually I have pointed in many occasion that commanders should have about the same power level.
The suggested Opel make T1 which is already unpopular even less so. The commender currently have only 1 strong ability while with the redesign either Opel or incendiary round is almost useless. My suggestion aim to make all abilities useful regardless of tech path.



DOT spreads on ground level and does not affect units that are on the top floors of higher garrisons. The AOE was changed specifically to help deal damage to units in large/high garrisons regardless, as that is one of the primary uses of the incendiary barrage.

Are sure that turning the affect all in hold will not make DOT damage entities on higher floors?
Imo it is the DOT that should force units to leave garrison.


The Hetzer is too powerful to put behind a potential 15/25+15/45 gate. It easily 1v1s anti-tank guns and AT infantry and can't be pushed off without armor. The current 80 fuel for the first phase of the SPHQ is already pushing its shock timing to the limit.

Removing the DOT from hezter and moving to an ability will help balance the unit allot.
As for the problem of timing the requirement could be either T4 or t1 t2 + medics+ repair.
24 Aug 2019, 15:30 PM
#395
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 296 | Subs: 1

All these nerfs to okw early game is giving me an anyerusm, where are the changes to compensate the mid-late game? it's weak as shit in 1v1, 18 min p4s (16 if you skip and hold two fuels, with some luck maybe~~ if you got a vehicle.)

And this pretty much just kills of fussilers, you can't afford 280 mp unit with /90/ fucking NINETY muni cost for a good weapon, why is nobody taking this into account????? Espescially with how thye lose every single engagement early execpt for super long range fights.

Jesus christ my head hurts.
24 Aug 2019, 17:00 PM
#396
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2368 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2019, 15:27 PMVipper
Are sure that turning the affect all in hold will not make DOT damage entities on higher floors?
Imo it is the DOT that should force units to leave garrison.


Damage in hold is already true for ISG Incendiary (according to coh2db.com/stats). Same for Volks flame nades. Neither will damage enemy models that are high up in buildings.
24 Aug 2019, 17:03 PM
#397
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2368 | Subs: 5

And this pretty much just kills of fussilers, you can't afford 280 mp unit with /90/ fucking NINETY muni cost for a good weapon, why is nobody taking this into account????? Espescially with how thye lose every single engagement early execpt for super long range fights.


Calm down, the preview mod is there to test things like this to see the changes in action, and adjust where needed, preferably based on actual feedback from test games. Hopefully the 1v1 tournament will give us some additional valuable insight.

The patchnotes already said:
OKW
Starting Resources
We will be closely monitoring how the following change affect line infantry, including Panzerfusilliers, who will probably receive a cost reduction in the next version given their lower effectiveness in the early game.
- Manpower further reduced from 320 to 300.
24 Aug 2019, 17:58 PM
#398
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8285 | Subs: 1



Damage in hold is already true for ISG Incendiary (according to coh2db.com/stats). Same for Volks flame nades. Neither will damage enemy models that are high up in buildings.

As far as I can remember and I can not check now the damage on in hold is true for initial blast but not for DOT. The mechanic would be allot better if most of the damage would actually come from DOT and not from initial blast. One could even test ramping up damage with time.

Do entities move from upper floor to lower floors once the lower floors are cleared?
24 Aug 2019, 18:08 PM
#399
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15216 | Subs: 7

All these nerfs to okw early game is giving me an anyerusm, where are the changes to compensate the mid-late game? it's weak as shit in 1v1, 18 min p4s (16 if you skip and hold two fuels, with some luck maybe~~ if you got a vehicle.)

And this pretty much just kills of fussilers, you can't afford 280 mp unit with /90/ fucking NINETY muni cost for a good weapon, why is nobody taking this into account????? Espescially with how thye lose every single engagement early execpt for super long range fights.

Jesus christ my head hurts.


The point of nerfs is to weaken something that is too strong. You do not get compensated for that.
24 Aug 2019, 18:39 PM
#400
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2368 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2019, 17:58 PMVipper
Do entities move from upper floor to lower floors once the lower floors are cleared?


No. The models on the lower floors burn to death, while the remaining models seem to stay on the upper floors and remain completely unharmed by the DOT (as long as the garrison is tall enough).

Flame grenade deals noticeable less damage than it should:


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