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USA September patch discussion

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24 Aug 2019, 15:24 PM
#221
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 344



You mean give urban assault the flamer and rifle the rifle grenades? that doesnt sound too bad, but i would be against removing the flamethrower entirely. i am not a fan of cover to cover, its a global ability while fire up can be used on individual squads, so i would keep that. i would be in favour of adding a rifle upgrade together with the RE nades, similar to howit currently is in urban assault, either one pathfinder scoped garand or like 3 airborne m1 carbines. Or the old M23 smoke grenades.

(on a sidenote: is it possible to fix the scoped garand animation? just looks off that the pathfinders cycle them like bolt action rifles after each shot.)


Please NO. We just got rid of JLI spam bullshit and I don't want to see it as USF rifle blobs.
WeX
24 Aug 2019, 15:42 PM
#223
avatar of WeX

Posts: 25

Lets fix the USF base... It makes everything so awkward
24 Aug 2019, 18:03 PM
#225
avatar of 13greed47

Posts: 53



Ostheer mortar halftrack got flames buffed too. :guyokay: Even with white Phos, I rarely saw the USF mortar halftrack in 4v4's of late. People just go pack howitzer because it's better by a wide margin and does not require doctrine.


because of fuel, cost mostly 30 fuel so you can either get a tier or have a halftrack that can die from 2 snare with no escape ability like panzer tactician. only time i get one of those is when okw decide move there base too close or if ost is bunker spaming (timed shell are so good vs building)
24 Aug 2019, 18:17 PM
#226
avatar of 13greed47

Posts: 53

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2019, 07:52 AMEsxile


SP healing crates say hi.



and the new okw opel blitz too
24 Aug 2019, 18:57 PM
#227
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 455



Ranger models would need the helmet of the lieutenant to make it more recognizable, plus the rangers have ranger decals on their helmet that would look out of place in a regular squad.

You could reduce the cost for sprint and flares since they would be locked behind the Veteran Sergeant upgrade, but the idea of locking the abilities behind the Sergeant was deliberate. I wanted to tie those abilities to the Sergeant for several reasons:

1. Encourage the use of the Sergeant, get the guy, get the abilities.
2. Prevent double BAR squads from sprinting up to MGs and being too strong. By making the Sergeant cost you a weapon slot you can now only have one BAR while sprinting up to a weapon team. This makes it less punishing to be on the receiving end of sprinting Riflemen.
3. Encourage use of grenade tech rather than BAR tech. Smoke, sprint and frag would be even more viable with an extra man to take damage and make aggressive grenade use less risky to try, but still expensive to pull off. This harkens back to the vCoH days of Riflemen grenade flanks being the top players US bread and butter tactic. Go watch some old DevM games from the Sunday night fights games to see what I mean.


Models can be reskinned here, but not remade. Decals on the ranger model are a non-issue requiring only a texture change.

6-man Rifle squads would be far more alluring than the tech-locked 120 munition sink double BARs are, and Fire Up has already historically mostly been good for getting in close to throw a grenade, as you say. This all without a gateway upgrade that ultimately makes the upgrade less accessible. I wouldn't be totally and completely opposed to this veteran sergeant idea but I don't think I really like the idea of it being required for all these upgrades.


(on a sidenote: is it possible to fix the scoped garand animation? just looks off that the pathfinders cycle them like bolt action rifles after each shot.)


It is in fact an incredibly easy fix that only requires changing the current wind-down time (1.3) to a value below 0.25 and moving the remainder time to cooldown or something. (Or, honestly, nixing it entirely, since the Pathfinder Garand is already atrociously bad compared to the equivalent JLI G43 in every way.) Why it has never been fixed as a QOL change is beyond me

The same issue is present with weapon crew M1 Garands. It requires only the exact same fix. (Though to be honest, weapon crews should be using M1 Carbines anyway...)

On a last note, I really don't want weapon upgrades for riflemen considering this is the RIFLE COMPANY. Not CARBINE COMPANY, SMG COMPANY, or MARKSMAN RIFLE COMPANY.

Fire Up benefits Riflemen, and now that the debuff is gone it's actually somewhat decent.
Flares benefit Riflemen, and even though it's still expensive as shit it can be useful

If we were to give one more thing to Riflemen here I'd let them shoot smoke grenades like they used to be able to do. If we were to add a unit it'd be the M3 or M5 Halftrack to make it easier to transport and reinforce Riflemen in the field. No more new tanks, no pathfinders, no sniper, no pershing. Rifle Company, for Riflemen.
24 Aug 2019, 19:00 PM
#228
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 816



because of fuel, cost mostly 30 fuel so you can either get a tier or have a halftrack that can die from 2 snare with no escape ability like panzer tactician. only time i get one of those is when okw decide move there base too close or if ost is bunker spaming (timed shell are so good vs building)


Mortar HT's all cost 40 fuel :snfCHVGame: more than all the other halftracks in game
They are quite vulnerable I agree, you can lose that investment quickly, or it may take some time to payoff.

I think 40 fuel is there b/c people spammed the ostheer one at some point and they copied that cost to USF one. So its to prevent spam more than anything it seems

Edit: They changed it to 30 fuel and I forgot :luvDerp:
24 Aug 2019, 19:07 PM
#229
avatar of imworsethanyou

Posts: 2 | Subs: 1



It is in fact an incredibly easy fix that only requires changing the wind-down time to 0 and moving the time to cooldown or something. Why it has never been fixed as a QOL change is beyond me



On a last note, I really don't want weapon upgrades for riflemen considering this is the RIFLE COMPANY. Not CARBINE COMPANY, SMG COMPANY, or MARKSMAN RIFLE COMPANY.

Fire Up benefits Riflemen, and now that the debuff is gone it's actually somewhat decent.
Flares benefit Riflemen, and even though it's still expensive as shit it can be useful

If we were to give one more thing to Riflemen here I'd let them shoot smoke grenades like they used to be able to do. If we were to add a unit it'd be the M3 or M5 Halftrack to make it easier to transport and reinforce Riflemen in the field. No more new tanks, no pathfinders, no sniper, no pershing. Rifle Company, for Riflemen.


fair enough, the carbines could be a bit overboard. the m23 would fit well together with the RE rifle nades anyways, just name the package 'rifle grenades', which could even include the rifle flares since they are fired from the rifles aswell. the rest of the doctrine is good as is in my book.

on the animation fix: id agree that crew weapons should have m1 carbines like in CoH1, just keep the garand stats and increase the mag size to 15( not that it matters). The Non-guard PTRS has the same problem of cycling like a bolt action iirc.
24 Aug 2019, 19:25 PM
#230
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3969



Mortar HT's all cost 40 fuel :snfCHVGame: more than all the other halftracks in game
They are quite vulnerable I agree, you can lose that investment quickly, or it may take some time to payoff.

I think 40 fuel is there b/c people spammed the ostheer one at some point and they copied that cost to USF one. So its to prevent spam more than anything it seems
it's actually the opposite they spammed the usf one :romeoHype:
24 Aug 2019, 19:33 PM
#231
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 816

it's actually the opposite they spammed the usf one :romeoHype:


I knew spam was the right answer though :megusta:

Indirect fire always works better when you spam it so you get squadwipes rather than retreats, it's hard to balance as a result
24 Aug 2019, 19:41 PM
#232
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 455

it's actually the opposite they spammed the usf one :romeoHype:


https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/67/coh-2-changelog/p5


250 Mortar HT
Similar to the Wehrmacht mortar, we have reduced the halftrack's rate of fire; in exchange, the unit has received a cost reduction to match the USF mortar halftrack.
• Reload increased from 4 to 6
• Barrage reload increased from 0 to 1.25
Fuel cost decreased from 40 to 30
• Smoke barrage range changed to 85
• Veterancy 2 barrage accuracy bonus removed
• Veterancy 3 range bonus replaced by 20% increase to barrage accuracy; applies to all barrages
• Minimum range increased from 25 to 40; does not affect smoke barrage


USF M21 Mortar HT spam was apparently so bad, the devs reduced the cost of the Ostheer Mortar HT to compensate... Both units are 30 fuel, and the M21 has been that way for far longer than the 250 HT.

You are so full of bias and contempt for the other half of the playerbase that it makes me cringe sometimes.
24 Aug 2019, 20:09 PM
#233
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3969



https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/67/coh-2-changelog/p5



USF M21 Mortar HT spam was apparently so bad, the devs reduced the cost of the Ostheer Mortar HT to compensate... Both units are 30 fuel, and the M21 has been that way for far longer than the 250 HT.

You are so full of bias and contempt for the other half of the playerbase that it makes me cringe sometimes.
well it was spammed before the changes to mortars

back in the days it used to deal full damage in heavy cover (obv fixed at some point) :sibHyena:
25 Aug 2019, 12:33 PM
#234
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 488 | Subs: 1




On a last note, I really don't want weapon upgrades for riflemen considering this is the RIFLE COMPANY. Not CARBINE COMPANY, SMG COMPANY, or MARKSMAN RIFLE COMPANY.
.


It should be noted that in US Army Infantry units (and Marine ones for that matter) the term Rifle Company is used to refer to the standard type of Company in an Infantry Battalion. This is opposed to a Weapons Company or a Headquarters Company within the Infantry Battalion. (There is no such thing as an “Infantry Company” as a company of Infantry would in fact be a Rifle Company.)

My point is that while the other USF doctrines provide something unique to them with added flavor or specialized units or equipment, in order to stay “on theme” as being a true Rifle Company, the in game doctrine should focus on the core units of the faction. Adding units or upgrades or abilities is fine as long as they don’t radically change the way the faction is played or your build order. Easy Eights are a great example of this. They don’t change the USF composition greatly, they just give the USF a better general purpose medium tank. This is also why I think the Veteran Sergeant concept fits Rifle Company so well, it’s a general purpose upgrade to your general purpose core Rifleman squads that wouldn’t change how you play them in any drastic way, it just makes them a little better. Heavy tanks, elite infantry, specialized upgrades (like M1919A6s) or heavy artillery are things that don’t fit the theme of Rifle Company.

Going Rifle Company should be like picking a doctrine that feels very plain and general purpose as a faction, but to make it a viable choice it should also be a Good general purpose choice. No real weaknesses, but no major advantage. Easy Eights are just good medium tanks, not heavy tanks. Veteran Sergeant upgraded Riflemen would be just good core infantry, not elite infantry. Flamethrowers on Rear Echelon troops are just basic builder units with a flamethrower like, but not elite assault troops. Riflemen field defenses give you sand bags and mines that some other factions get without a doctrine at all. Rifle Company, the USF Jack of all Trades choice for the discerning Rifleman.
25 Aug 2019, 12:35 PM
#235
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 488 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2019, 15:42 PMWeX
Lets fix the USF base... It makes everything so awkward


+10!

Have you seen the reorganized rectangle USF base? It’s great and I’d love to see it put into the live version of the game.
26 Aug 2019, 12:50 PM
#236
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

https://www.coh2.org/topic/95760/rear-echelon-to-be-more-supportive-and-viable/post/768976

An idea to make Echelons more viable and to be more utilized since other Engineers are getting too some improvements in order to make it used more often!
26 Aug 2019, 16:35 PM
#237
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3216 | Subs: 1

Any words on making HEAT barrage from pak howie a zero AoE but minimal scatter as to be effective vs stationary tanks? I'd like it to be more consistant and less RNG.
26 Aug 2019, 17:26 PM
#238
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6398 | Subs: 1

USF

Jackson

Good change.
Sugestions:
Lower the max accurcy, penetration and reload of the unit so that it less effective vs meduim tanks at max range.
Replace accuracy bonus with penetration bonuses or move some of the mobility of the units to higher vet level.

M8 Scott

Decent changes.
Sugestions:
lower autofire projectile speed and/or AOE so it less effective vs moving targets.
Remove defensive smoke the units is very difficult to kill and as artillery unit has little reason to have defensive smoke.


Pak Howitzer

Sugestions:
maybe replace white phosphorous with flare?

M21 Mortar Halftrack

Decent changes.

M26 Pershing

Decent changes.
Sugestions:
keep CP high lower fuel cost. Maybe add a CD on call in so that the unit can not be instaly replaced.

Time On Target

Since the Major has recon this change make Priest able to fire with little to no counter.
Sugestions:
If the ability guarantees killing Lefh it should be moved to another commander.


Rifle Company

Decent changes to commander
Suggestions:
1) Swap flamer with rifle-grenade from urban and move it to Riflemen. It feat the theme better.
2) Rename "Riflemen Field Defenses" to field "Field Defenses" and give access to mine and sandbags to R.E. .Decrease speed of building defense for all mainline infatry across all faction.
3) Reduce target size of Tank traps, increase built time, change cover to yellow


Paratroopers / Paratroopers Support Squad

Decent changes to commanders
Suggestions:
Paratroopers Support Squad remove airdrop make the unit build-able from HQ lock LMG upgrade to 2 officers.
Replace I&R Pathfinders with a scoped M1+M1 for riflemen taking up weapon slots increasing sight and allowing to call in smoke and HE mortar barrage.
The changes aim to reduced overlap and better fit the theme of the commander.


Changes to both of the following units were discussed before release. The team has decided to include for testing after initial feedback.

1.1 Riflemen

Great change. The uni buffs should aim at creating relative positioning advantages.
Suggestions:
1) Lower far and close DPS of BAR lower price to 45
2) Now that the near range has become similar across semi automatics can we do similar change over bolt action so that these weapon and SMGs get an advantage in close range?
A bit more on the suggestion on and older post:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/52782/suggested-improvements-to-small-arms-weapons

Rear Echelon Troops

Decent change

26 Aug 2019, 17:28 PM
#239
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6398 | Subs: 1

Any words on making HEAT barrage from pak howie a zero AoE but minimal scatter as to be effective vs stationary tanks? I'd like it to be more consistant and less RNG.

Isn't that change going to make very effective vs OKW trucks?
Shouldn't such a change be a different barrage ability so the user can choose the target?
26 Aug 2019, 17:30 PM
#240
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3216 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Aug 2019, 17:28 PMVipper

Isn't that change going to make very effective vs OKW trucks?
Shouldn't such a change be a different barrage ability so the user can choose the target?


Probably, but it isn't like the current barrage is missing wildly either. All the more reason to lock OKW trucks to base IMO.
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