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Move Conscripts 7th man from t4 to t3?

16 Jun 2019, 06:46 AM
#21
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I've said for some time that Soviet tiers should be chock full of REASONABLE side techs to keep cons up to snuff (so no 25 fuel 125mp for basics bull shit) and I think at t3 for (now) standard 15 fu and 80 mp on top of taking their weapon slot and costing munitions would be enough.
16 Jun 2019, 11:17 AM
#22
avatar of Warspite

Posts: 45

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jun 2019, 00:50 AMFarlion
The problem here is that once again Soviets would be balanced to match OKW, without considering what the buffs would do to a match-up against Wehrmacht.

Grens are already in a difficult spot, having swarms of 7 man conscripts running around in combination with a T-70 would easily clear Wehrmacht players off the field.


Last checked 7-man conscripts could not beat LMG Grens with both in green cover unless they got really, really lucky and you have PG's now..
16 Jun 2019, 12:12 PM
#23
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

I've said for some time that Soviet tiers should be chock full of REASONABLE side techs to keep cons up to snuff (so no 25 fuel 125mp for basics bull shit) and I think at t3 for (now) standard 15 fu and 80 mp on top of taking their weapon slot and costing munitions would be enough.
even 10 fuel, it's not like usf or brits one with multiple weapons etc
16 Jun 2019, 13:17 PM
#24
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Maybe it's too early to say but the new Conscript upgrade feels good and useful BUT at same time utterly pointless cuz it arrives too late.


It's where it is to avoid buffing heavy tank stalling.

Once they get tied to tech next patch, I think 7 Man Conscripts can go to T3.
16 Jun 2019, 13:32 PM
#25
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

The idea of better "performance" with no fuel cost, promotes blobbing and should be avoided my opinion. (that is why I have suggested doctrinal infatry upgrades to have some tech cost)

I don't thing that the Soviet faction is UP so I see little reason to buff them more by moving this upgrade to T3.
16 Jun 2019, 14:19 PM
#26
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 682

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jun 2019, 22:01 PMKatitof
Was it up to me, it would be T3 unlock with side cost of 20-30 fuel associated.


Thank God that's not the case.
16 Jun 2019, 16:05 PM
#27
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jun 2019, 14:19 PMKoRneY


Thank God that's not the case.

It fixes literally all problems that were claimed if it was in T3.
1) No combined shock effect of T-70 AND 7 man cons, so that excuse is no longer valid
2) Tech delay if you choose to go for it early, meaning stronger mid game, but later late game, so no efficiency excuse
3) If you go for 7th man first, armor will be delayed enough to respond
16 Jun 2019, 17:27 PM
#28
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 379 | Subs: 1



Last checked 7-man conscripts could not beat LMG Grens with both in green cover unless they got really, really lucky and you have PG's now..


Good thing Conscripts don't have anything to force LMG Grens out of cover.

Also, Wehrmacht had PzGrens before, I'm not sure what your point is.
16 Jun 2019, 17:29 PM
#29
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jun 2019, 22:01 PMKatitof
Was it up to me, it would be T3 unlock with side cost of 20-30 fuel associated.


That is actually a good idea.
16 Jun 2019, 17:35 PM
#30
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 369

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jun 2019, 22:01 PMKatitof
Was it up to me, it would be T3 unlock with side cost of 20-30 fuel associated.


Good thing nothing is up to you.

Doesn't need that kind of nerf. T3 would be optimal, but T4 at least contributes other things and its built in most games. A T3 sidetech of 20-30 FU would not dramatically increase timing (~1-2 mins assuming equal fuel control and no caches) all whilst simultaneously delaying T4. What a terrible and unnecessary idea.
16 Jun 2019, 18:02 PM
#31
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Assuming the upgrade does need to come sooner (and that's still just an assumption at this point imo), one way to avoid the coinciding with the T-70 powerspike at T3 (which is one of the reasons it was placed in T4) would be to introduce a battlephase-esque side-tech in T3 (like the secondary unlock for USF techs) that unlocks the 7 men Cons upgrade.

The cost of this side-tech would be deducted from the cost of T4 and the upgrade would be a requirement to put up T4. This way the Cons upgrade could come a bit sooner while keeping the exact same timings/costs for tech.

One downside of this is that it effectively does nothing for non-Con builds, but then again that is also how most of the Battlephases for Ostheer work (some give an upgrade for some units, some give access to other units, some just do nothing).

So for example:
T3 240MP / 85FU

New: "T3.5 side-tech" 50MP / 20FU
- Unlocks 7 men Cons upgrade

T4 240MP / 90FU -> 190MP / 70FU (-50/20)
- requires T3.5 researched


Again though, that's assuming the upgrade needs to come sooner. We're going to need a few weeks of testing to get a good (objective) feel for it before meddling with this imo.
16 Jun 2019, 18:11 PM
#32
avatar of Warspite

Posts: 45

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jun 2019, 17:27 PMFarlion


Good thing Conscripts don't have anything to force LMG Grens out of cover.

Also, Wehrmacht had PzGrens before, I'm not sure what your point is.


PGens got more accessible and buffed , no? And good thing cons dont lose half the models rushing to throw the molotov
16 Jun 2019, 18:57 PM
#33
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2977 | Subs: 3

Assuming the upgrade does need to come sooner (and that's still just an assumption at this point imo), one way to avoid the coinciding with the T-70 powerspike at T3 (which is one of the reasons it was placed in T4) would be to introduce a battlephase-esque side-tech in T3 (like the secondary unlock for USF techs) that unlocks the 7 men Cons upgrade.

The cost of this side-tech would be deducted from the cost of T4 and the upgrade would be a requirement to put up T4. This way the Cons upgrade could come a bit sooner while keeping the exact same timings/costs for tech.

One downside of this is that it effectively does nothing for non-Con builds, but then again that is also how most of the Battlephases for Ostheer work (some give an upgrade for some units, some give access to other units, some just do nothing).

So for example:


Again though, that's assuming the upgrade needs to come sooner. We're going to need a few weeks of testing to get a good (objective) feel for it before meddling with this imo.


:thumb:

I agree, let's not rush a decision on this conscript topic
17 Jun 2019, 18:46 PM
#34
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



PGens got more accessible and buffed , no? And good thing cons dont lose half the models rushing to throw the molotov


And lose their bonus stats while closing... Also when does the lmg hit the field vs when the con upgrade hit? It's just someone complaining because they are used to cons being a losing unit designed solely to throw the game.
Phy
17 Jun 2019, 19:25 PM
#35
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1

Cons still disappointing even with the upgrade. Dunno if its a matter of timing only though.
18 Jun 2019, 02:17 AM
#36
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Could place the upgrade in t3, but require three soviet tech buildings.

For the T1-T2-T3 unicorn.

:foreveralone:
18 Jun 2019, 06:17 AM
#37
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 789

Anyone notice that 3 (Sov) and 2(OKW) stage tech causes weird power lapses and spikes? It felt the same with USF before the tech revamp.

Maybe reduce cost of t3 and add a 4th stage of tech to t4 that unlocks SU 85 and katushka ?
18 Jun 2019, 12:11 PM
#38
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 281

Other than merging i got no significant use of 7 man cons. Especially if the enemy is blobbing sturms and panzerfusilliers, and if ots ostheer shreck panzergrenadiers with mg42. Cons are just lackluster. They lack the speed in throwing molotov compared with incendiary grenade of volks. Stg volks are so op. Also for ppl complaining of power spike at t3 with t70. Man it just gets recked by a teller mine. And with early pzgrens it take 2 shrecks and its gone. T70 is so useless now.
18 Jun 2019, 12:15 PM
#39
avatar of Warspite

Posts: 45

Permanently Banned
Other than merging i got no significant use of 7 man cons. Especially if the enemy is blobbing sturms and panzerfusilliers, and if ots ostheer shreck panzergrenadiers with mg42. Cons are just lackluster. They lack the speed in throwing molotov compared with incendiary grenade of volks. Stg volks are so op. Also for ppl complaining of power spike at t3 with t70. Man it just gets recked by a teller mine. And with early pzgrens it take 2 shrecks and its gone. T70 is so useless now.


AS mirage said cons are only supposed to be UtIlIty not potent mainline because reasons..but who would have guessed 280mp fusiliers most likely with weapon upgrades beat 240mp units? or 300mp vs 240mp? weird!

Also sweepers are your friend and kiting. seems mostly like a l2p issue
19 Jun 2019, 16:33 PM
#40
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 868 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jun 2019, 00:50 AMFarlion
The problem here is that once again Soviets would be balanced to match OKW, without considering what the buffs would do to a match-up against Wehrmacht.

Grens are already in a difficult spot, having swarms of 7 man conscripts running around in combination with a T-70 would easily clear Wehrmacht players off the field.


But isn't that why they now have PGrens in T0 after Phase 1 unlock?
Last time I checked, PGrens eat Cons for breakfast at all ranges.
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