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Raketenwerfer

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Would you exchange the Raketenwerfer's retreat for the full 60 range?
Option Distribution Votes
56%
44%
Would you like to see the Raketenwerfer have an anti-infantry ability like the M-42?
Option Distribution Votes
13%
87%
Total votes: 174
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
Lago
3 Feb 2019, 01:05 AM
#1
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Posts: 3260

The Raketenwerfer is unit notorious for somehow being both awful to use and awful to play against.

  • As the OKW player, you've got an AT gun too short range to use defensively that dies whenever you look away from it.
  • As the OKW player's opponent, you've got invisible AT guns A-moving towards your tanks and retreating when you catch them in the act.


However, the most recent patch has given a good example of a light AT gun done well: the Soviet M-42 rework.

What do you think of reworking the Raketenwerfer to be like that? No retreat, but 60 range and some sort of anti-infantry ability?
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ShadowLinkX37
3 Feb 2019, 01:38 AM
#2
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I'd rather just have a pak40 and call it a day, even if said pak40 is called raketenwerfer 43
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Sander93
3 Feb 2019, 01:59 AM
#3
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I'd just rework them to 60 range, faster aim time and make the camouflage only available when stationary (or even remove camouflage and somehow give the crew more survivability).

If it needs to be unique somehow, it could do less damage but have the same high penetration on all distances (as it fires HEAT rockets).


OKW doesn't need any more anti-infantry, it just needs a solid ATG that doesn't solely revolve around cheese to be any good.
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thedarkarmadillo
3 Feb 2019, 02:45 AM
#4
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Posts: 5279

I'd keep it as is, but make the camo only work when stationary (no more fucking creeping death cheese) but give it a bonus when in camo of range and accuracy, improve the bonus with vet. Maybe give a small damage reduction at vet 1 since movement when cloaked wouldn't be a thing so as to improve its survival a bit.
#stalinwept
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Tobis
3 Feb 2019, 03:08 AM
#5
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No, it's unique and just needs tweaking.

Make it so you can't move while cloaked to remove the cheese, then make it more survivable to explosions. Maybe give the models 82 health so they don't get insta wiped by explosives so often.
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Euan
3 Feb 2019, 08:38 AM
#6
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Posts: 177

I agree with Tobis, it needs a buff but it's nice to retain some uniqueness in each army.

I would rather suggest that it gets a smaller / less random aim time, and an increased accuracy. Then you get a reliable, if squishy, vehicle counter (thanks to the already high penetration).

I'm indifferent about the moving camo, it's a bit silly but if you can sneak it all the way into the enemy territory, you deserve a LV kill, it will probably die on retreat anyway :D
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adamírcz
3 Feb 2019, 10:23 AM
#7
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2019, 03:08 AMTobis
No, it's unique and just needs tweaking.

Make it so you can't move while cloaked to remove the cheese, then make it more survivable to explosions. Maybe give the models 82 health so they don't get insta wiped by explosives so often.


+1



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NoktDraz
3 Feb 2019, 12:55 PM
#8
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Give it a range extender ability (USF vet1 AT gun ability), move stealth to vet 1 and maybe reduce sight while camo'ed so it can't self spot so easily
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Stug life
3 Feb 2019, 13:30 PM
#9
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Posts: 4474

pak 38 from Vcoh please
katitof-2018
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blancat
3 Feb 2019, 13:38 PM
#10
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Posts: 810

Make them cant move while they are cloaking

instead, in cloaking range is increase 50->60 and have a short sight(30) // other AT sight is 35



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ferwiner
3 Feb 2019, 15:35 PM
#11
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2019, 03:08 AMTobis
No, it's unique and just needs tweaking.

Make it so you can't move while cloaked to remove the cheese, then make it more survivable to explosions. Maybe give the models 82 health so they don't get insta wiped by explosives so often.


Good post +1. I'm not sure about the 82 health, but maybe something can be done to change the size of the formation.
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Sander93
3 Feb 2019, 15:45 PM
#12
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Regarding survivability I wonder if it would work to give the Rakettenwerfer heavy cover like the other AT guns. Given that heavy cover is directional, this should leave the crew pretty much as vulnerable to small arms fire as they are now (except one model when it's shot at from the side) but it should help a lot against explosions instawipes because of the 50% damage reduction.
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DonnieChan
3 Feb 2019, 18:08 PM
#13
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There has to be done something about it. Crew more survivability, more pen idc. Its just so unreliable
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thedarkarmadillo
3 Feb 2019, 18:48 PM
#14
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Posts: 5279

could try giving it a 5 man crew and see how that works. it would also help bridge the performance gap between when the soviet crew it and anyone else does.
#stalinwept
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Jae For Jett
3 Feb 2019, 19:10 PM
#15
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2019, 15:45 PMSander93
Regarding survivability I wonder if it would work to give the Rakettenwerfer heavy cover like the other AT guns. Given that heavy cover is directional, this should leave the crew pretty much as vulnerable to small arms fire as they are now (except one model when it's shot at from the side) but it should help a lot against explosions instawipes because of the 50% damage reduction.

Well apparently the heavy cover on the AT guns doesn't work/is super inconsistent. So I assume that's not a possible avenue for the raketen.
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elchino7
3 Feb 2019, 21:14 PM
#16
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2019, 19:10 PMJae For Jett

Well apparently the heavy cover on the AT guns doesn't work/is super inconsistent. So I assume that's not a possible avenue for the raketen.


In game, i would say it only works in like 10% of the cases. What's more effective in the case of the normal AT guns, is that they have a bigger hitbox which would lead to blocking "physical shots".

I just tested in case it was fixed but nope. Each AT gun bugs differently (lol), but for example:

Zis: the shield disappears when looking to the right. You still have a shield when looking in the middle but it doesn't do anything. But when shooting on the boarder of the left side AND been attacked from that side, you would actually benefit from it.

If someone want to further test, just use cheatcommands (first version is easier) with damage UI kickers enabled. Then just use a single high accuracy unit such as an Ober model with vet and check when the unit is dealing 8 or 16 damage. Or faster, just use any unit with nades and see how you are still wiping 2 model AT guns from the front.

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And if it is, you only care about winning.

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Mittens
3 Feb 2019, 22:32 PM
#17
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Posts: 1276

Reketen should get same basic abilities as other AT guns EG Heavy cover and 60 range but should lose its retreat and cloak.
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Kothre
4 Feb 2019, 00:54 AM
#18
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Posts: 431

No way would I get rid of the retreat ability just for a little extra range. The problem with the raketenwerfer is its piss poor accuracy and tendency to hit map geometry (despite multiple patches "addressing" this), not its range.
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LoopDloop
4 Feb 2019, 02:28 AM
#19
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Posts: 3053

IMO if it got 60 range it'd have to lose cloak too. It's really frustrating when okw players make 2 raketens and just sit like halfway within range and 2 hit your tanks from camo with 0 counterplay. Even if they lost retreat this would probably still be a problem.

There's also the issue of it shooting the ground a lot.

So basically it'd just have to be a pak with a different skin.
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ferwiner
4 Feb 2019, 02:38 AM
#20
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jump backJump back to quoted post4 Feb 2019, 02:28 AMLoopDloop
IMO if it got 60 range it'd have to lose cloak too. It's really frustrating when okw players make 2 raketens and just sit like halfway within range and 2 hit your tanks from camo with 0 counterplay. Even if they lost retreat this would probably still be a problem.

There's also the issue of it shooting the ground a lot.

So basically it'd just have to be a pak with a different skin.


Soviet zis guns also can cloak and they have 60 range. And nobody seems to complain. The difference is that the ability is doctrinal, they have no retreat, no reduced cost and you actually need specific tech to even build them.
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