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russian armor

Raketenwerfer

4 Feb 2019, 04:10 AM
#21
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 665

IMO if it got 60 range it'd have to lose cloak too. It's really frustrating when okw players make 2 raketens and just sit like halfway within range and 2 hit your tanks from camo with 0 counterplay. Even if they lost retreat this would probably still be a problem.

There's also the issue of it shooting the ground a lot.

So basically it'd just have to be a pak with a different skin.


You know exactly where they are because they are only so many ways where you can use them.
See a large open field? they are most likely there.
4 Feb 2019, 07:15 AM
#22
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 1941

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2019, 03:08 AMTobis
No, it's unique and just needs tweaking.

Make it so you can't move while cloaked to remove the cheese, then make it more survivable to explosions. Maybe give the models 82 health so they don't get insta wiped by explosives so often.


+1
4 Feb 2019, 08:12 AM
#23
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1820

thiz rakten is awefull in okw hands..but in someway good when cpatured by sov..cause of 6model crew it desont die in mostly 1-2sec after the enemy see it.

give it a 6model crew as okw
4 Feb 2019, 09:26 AM
#24
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1577 | Subs: 2

Im fine with the raketen, except something with the aim time or tracking seems off. Sometimes it just refuses to fire..
4 Feb 2019, 21:26 PM
#25
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1961 | Subs: 3

Well apparently the heavy cover on the AT guns doesn't work/is super inconsistent. So I assume that's not a possible avenue for the raketen.


That's a shame.


Though I do think giving it 60 range (and nerfing some other traits) would give it the desired significant boost in survivability too because it wouldn't have to be in knife fighting range of enemy tanks in order to fire.
5 Feb 2019, 12:04 PM
#26
avatar of Loren

Posts: 94

At least the M42 has very bad stats for penetrations and damages; anti-tank services.

However, Raketenwerfer can destroy almost all the Allied tanks. Most allied tanks do not have a chance to ricochet to the raketenwerfer and suffer a very large damage.
Giving these raketenwerfer the ability to control infantry is really a perfect unit.
Remember the current Axis situation.
They are no longer disadvantageous to Allied forces in infantry battle.
5 Feb 2019, 14:39 PM
#27
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 1663 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Feb 2019, 12:04 PMLoren
At least the M42 has very bad stats for penetrations and damages; anti-tank services.

However, Raketenwerfer can destroy almost all the Allied tanks. Most allied tanks do not have a chance to ricochet to the raketenwerfer and suffer a very large damage.
Giving these raketenwerfer the ability to control infantry is really a perfect unit.
Remember the current Axis situation.
They are no longer disadvantageous to Allied forces in infantry battle.


then hf fighting off IS2 and Churchills with it
5 Feb 2019, 14:45 PM
#28
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 868

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2019, 03:08 AMTobis
No, it's unique and just needs tweaking.

Make it so you can't move while cloaked to remove the cheese, then make it more survivable to explosions. Maybe give the models 82 health so they don't get insta wiped by explosives so often.

This
5 Feb 2019, 17:35 PM
#29
avatar of Loren

Posts: 94



then hf fighting off IS2 and Churchills with it


It sounds like a really biased statement.
Raketenwerfer has a penetrating power of 200/190/180 and 160 damage.
There is only one churchill heavy tank except the callin unit, where there is a 1% probability that Raketenwerfer will not penetrate.
This obviously means that you can completely control the Allied medium tank.
This is much higher than the USF's 57mm AT gun penetration power of 150/140/130.

But think about m42.
It is clearly designed with light AT and has 140/110/90 penetrating power and 80 damage.
This is lower penetration than USF's Bazooka, and the same damage. With a penetration of 90, the probability of penetrating the stug-III is only 57%. And even that can only inflict 80 damage.
The m42 is apparently designed to stop the light-tank from the design, and that's why it has gained some anti-infantry capability.
However, Raketenwerfer has no shortage of anti-tank ability.
Imagine as you said, Raketenwerfer has Anti-heavy tank capability. this the right balance?
5 Feb 2019, 17:50 PM
#30
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 331

Rak should have shorter range but better pen and RoF as it's a rocket launcher after all.

Camo on the move needs to get swapped with some other vet bonus because it's just cheese... It adds nothing to the game but frustration, just like emplacements
5 Feb 2019, 17:54 PM
#31
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 331

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Feb 2019, 17:35 PMLoren


It sounds like a really biased statement.
Raketenwerfer has a penetrating power of 200/190/180 and 160 damage.
There is only one churchill heavy tank except the callin uni t, where there is a 1% probability that Raketenwerfer will not penetrate.
This obviously means that you can completely control the Allied medium tank.
This is much higher than the USF's 57mm AT gun penetration power of 150/140/130.

But think about m42.
It is clearly designed with light AT and has 140/110/90 penetrating power and 80 damage.
This is lower penetration than USF's Bazooka, and the same damage. With a penetration of 90, the probability of penetrating the stug-III is only 57%. And even that can only inflict 80 damage.
The m42 is apparently designed to stop the light-tank from the design, and that's why it has gained some anti-infantry capability.
However, Raketenwerfer has no shortage of anti-tank ability.
Imagine as you said, Raketenwerfer has Anti-heavy tank capability. this the right balance?


ZiS also has anti inf but can take on tigers and panther. I don't see how expensive AI abilities would be that bad if the cheese like stealth and retreat was removed
6 Feb 2019, 04:44 AM
#32
avatar of Loren

Posts: 94



ZiS also has anti inf but can take on tigers and panther. I don't see how expensive AI abilities would be that bad if the cheese like stealth and retreat was removed


In return, Zis lost some of his AT ability. Zis has the slowest reload speed and the most expensive of all AT-guns. Also, ZiS' barrage skill is not free.
and you know that? ZiS has same penetrations to Raketenwerfer. (200/190/180)
If ZiS can counter heavy tanks, Raketenwerfer is also possible. well, actually do better.
6 Feb 2019, 07:08 AM
#33
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1820

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Feb 2019, 04:44 AMLoren


In return, Zis lost some of his AT ability. Zis has the slowest reload speed and the most expensive of all AT-guns. Also, ZiS' barrage skill is not free.
and you know that? ZiS has same penetrations to Raketenwerfer. (200/190/180)
If ZiS can counter heavy tanks, Raketenwerfer is also possible. well, actually do better.


thats a joke, right?
- rakten has less range than zis
- rakten dies when u look at it
- rakten set more shots into the ground
- rakten has less arc when i remember right

how can it be better vs heavy armor when it dies much much much faster than a zis and will mostly 1-2 shots less than the zis cause of its less range??
6 Feb 2019, 07:12 AM
#34
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Feb 2019, 17:35 PMLoren

There is only one churchill heavy tank except the callin unit, where there is a 1% probability that Raketenwerfer will not penetrate.


Where did you learn how to do math?

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Feb 2019, 04:44 AMLoren

and you know that? ZiS has same penetrations to Raketenwerfer. (200/190/180)


No it does not. Perhaps when you figure out why they are not equal you will know you are out of your depth
6 Feb 2019, 07:33 AM
#35
avatar of Loren

Posts: 94



thats a joke, right?
- rakten has less range than zis
- rakten dies when u look at it
- rakten set more shots into the ground
- rakten has less arc when i remember right

how can it be better vs heavy armor when it dies much much much faster than a zis and will mostly 1-2 shots less than the zis cause of its less range??


- can camo
- faster reload (almost 30% faster than ZiS)
- evasion bonus 15%

ZiS has delay before shot 0.125s + relosds 4.475s + after shot 1s = total 5.6s for reload.

raketen has 0s + 3.8s + 0.5s = total 4.3s for reload.

5.6s/4.3s = 1.30

30% more dps means quite many thinks, don't you think?
6 Feb 2019, 07:41 AM
#36
avatar of Loren

Posts: 94



Where did you learn how to do math?



No it does not. Perhaps when you figure out why they are not equal you will know you are out of your depth


than where did you learn your math?

they has exactly same penetrations/accuracy bro. see stats.
(penetrations 200/190/180 , accuracy 6%/4%)

raketen's maximum range penetration is 180, and there are no tanks to allies more than 180 armor without commander skills or brits hammer/anvil tactics units. sherman has 160 armor, t34 has 150, cromwell has 160 front armor too.
all allies medium tanks has no chance for ricochet against raketen.

and how about m42 's 80 penetrations?

so focus on origin questions; is raketen needs anti-personal abilities?
6 Feb 2019, 10:31 AM
#37
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Feb 2019, 07:41 AMLoren


than where did you learn your math?

they has exactly same penetrations/accuracy bro. see stats.
(penetrations 200/190/180 , accuracy 6%/4%)

...


I think Hoshi means the Raketen has faster penetration drop-off cause of its lower range, giving the Zis better penetration at equal ranges.

The raketen is also lower to the ground, meaning scatter shots hit the ground more frequently.
6 Feb 2019, 11:33 AM
#38
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1820

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Feb 2019, 07:33 AMLoren


- can camo
- faster reload (almost 30% faster than ZiS)
- evasion bonus 15%

ZiS has delay before shot 0.125s + relosds 4.475s + after shot 1s = total 5.6s for reload.

raketen has 0s + 3.8s + 0.5s = total 4.3s for reload.

5.6s/4.3s = 1.30

30% more dps means quite many thinks, don't you think?


really? u calc the vet 5 stats? From rakten? you will hardly seen a vet 5 rakten in most games....cause of diying like fly in no time most fights it sees.


6 Feb 2019, 12:50 PM
#39
avatar of Loren

Posts: 94



really? u calc the vet 5 stats? From rakten? you will hardly seen a vet 5 rakten in most games....cause of diying like fly in no time most fights it sees.




all of this calculations are 0 vet stats.
6 Feb 2019, 12:55 PM
#40
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6395 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Feb 2019, 12:50 PMLoren


all of this calculations are 0 vet stats.

Yet the reload of the RW is 3.8 - 4.3 averaged at 4.05 and you choose to use only the lower value.

And choose to ignore that fact that RW has far worse fire aim time while in most cases it is facing faster moving vehicles ending up many time with its first shot not being effective (and many times it does not get a second shot).
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