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Buff Ostwind

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29 Oct 2018, 05:57 AM
#21
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Ostwinds in WW2 were really rare (even the game says it). Why not make them doctrinal?
*WARING Im about to go wild.
Make it docrinal. Put it in T2, same cost, Or T3 with a cost reduction (make it 60F). Buff its AA. Buff a little its suppression (not its damage). New ability: Gets static, cant target grownd, double range (to shoot planes)


Ppshs were super common, but every single unit with them is doctrinal, but many Axis units come with STGs.
Flaming stick grenades didn't exist, but Soviet need a doctrinal unit to have access to any sort of grenade period.
Most king tigers were abandoned, but it's the Americans that can bail out not the OKW.
Is-2 out produced King tigers but one is in only 2 doctrines and the other is in every single doctrine okw will ever get...

I'm starting to think this game is only loosely based on history and not actually a military simulation based solely on historical production numbers but I'm not sure. I'll keep doing research and get back to you.
29 Oct 2018, 16:53 PM
#22
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

I agree that it could use an aa buff but why would you ever use an ostwind over a 222 for aa? One 222 is already pretty good as and they’re so cheap that you can get 2 of them for marginally more than flaktracks and 3 for the fuel price of an ostwind or centaur.
29 Oct 2018, 18:06 PM
#23
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833



Most king tigers were abandoned, but it's the Americans that can bail out not the OKW.
Is-2 out produced King tigers but one is in only 2 doctrines and the other is in every single doctrine okw will ever get...


Shermans and open top TD's like Jackson were easiest tanks to escape in the entire war, while US and british tank losses were high the crew usually got out safe. Vehicles like the Hetzer or Jagdpanzer were suicide wagons in comparison, so it makes sense US got emergency crew disembark and not OKW.

If anything crew safety got worse for the Germans latewar with all these weird and cramped assault gun varieties making up the bulk of their armour.
29 Oct 2018, 20:50 PM
#24
avatar of AvNY

Posts: 862



Shermans and open top TD's like Jackson were easiest tanks to escape in the entire war, while US and british tank losses were high the crew usually got out safe. Vehicles like the Hetzer or Jagdpanzer were suicide wagons in comparison, so it makes sense US got emergency crew disembark and not OKW.

If anything crew safety got worse for the Germans latewar with all these weird and cramped assault gun varieties making up the bulk of their armour.


The"get-out-of-the-tank" mechanic wasn't about abandoning. It was about a crew repairing their own equipment.

The Germans abandoned a lot of their tanks. There was little choice since the tanks were quite unreliable AND they were short of parts and fuel.

(This is why the Allied tanks were superior. They were complete weapons systems, not sexy, sometimes working, individual pieces of equipment. Read of all the US tank developments that never made it past the prototype stage... If it couldn't be built easily, repaired easily, run reliably, and also do the job, they just didn't put it into production. On top of that, a Sherman could be transported, would run, and could be maintained anywhere in the world even though the source of parts was half a world and weeks if not months of transport away.)

30 Oct 2018, 06:24 AM
#25
avatar of Storm Elite

Posts: 246

Wasn't anti-air changed at some point to basically be random chance for each shot of shooting down a plane outright?

Definitely remember something like that being discussed, with two options being either random shoot down chance or tweaking health amounts on planes, with the decision being made to go with the random chance to avoid the constant plane health tweaking that was going on without any consensus on what amount worked best.

Or did I dream that discussion up?
30 Oct 2018, 08:42 AM
#26
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Wasn't anti-air changed at some point to basically be random chance for each shot of shooting down a plane outright?

...

The planes mechanics was to be changed in Fall balance from critical to HP, I have not checked if it was implement thou.
30 Oct 2018, 09:06 AM
#27
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2018, 08:42 AMVipper

The planes mechanics was to be changed in Fall balance from critical to HP, I have not checked if it was implement thou.

It wasn't, its still chance.
30 Oct 2018, 11:26 AM
#28
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 823 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Oct 2018, 23:42 PMSully
It should definitely be brought up to par in the anti aircraft department. Units such as the Centaur, OKW Flak HT, and Sov Quad HT really outshine it.

I'm not sure it needs a damage buff, but it could certainly be cheaper for what you get.


As usual, i have to agree with mostly what you said.

But i think making it cheaper might be the wrong way.

Let's compare to Centaur.
Planes get shot down mostly in 1 Burst of it's main gun through high rate of fire.
The Anti-Infantry capability of the Centaur is still strong, does decent Damage and Modelwipes.

Now when i look at the ostwind from my experiences since the last changes of it.

Planes RARELY get shot down. And mostly at least one plane can go through the whole time of the Ability. May it be Sturmovik,Vanguard Airstrike or P47's as USF.

The Damage on Infantry is.. Questionable..

My Solution would be, if i understood correctly, to increase rate of fire a bit, so it could cause the critical to shoot down the plane, and one guard squad can't take it on all alone
30 Oct 2018, 13:21 PM
#29
avatar of Tactical Imouto

Posts: 172

Permanently Banned


I was just shooting ideas. Take account I said Ostwind will be doctrinal and wont be AI effective as much
That bulletin is for OKW IIRC.
'


wild claims, got a playercard to weigh in?
30 Oct 2018, 15:16 PM
#30
avatar of Sully

Posts: 390 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2018, 11:26 AMd0ggY

My Solution would be, if i understood correctly, to increase rate of fire a bit, so it could cause the critical to shoot down the plane, and one guard squad can't take it on all alone


A rate of fire buff could fix most of its issues, agreed.
30 Oct 2018, 15:23 PM
#31
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

'


wild claims, got a playercard to weigh in?


I dont need that to be a sensible person (do you?)
Also check your PM's ;)
30 Oct 2018, 15:33 PM
#32
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

Ostwind is AMAZING when it gets to Vet 3! I dont think it needs a damage buff or rate of fire buff. What Ostwind needs is great anti air damage but why not build scout car that is more cost effective?
30 Oct 2018, 16:14 PM
#33
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2018, 11:26 AMd0ggY


As usual, i have to agree with mostly what you said.

But i think making it cheaper might be the wrong way.

Let's compare to Centaur.
Planes get shot down mostly in 1 Burst of it's main gun through high rate of fire.
The Anti-Infantry capability of the Centaur is still strong, does decent Damage and Modelwipes.

Now when i look at the ostwind from my experiences since the last changes of it.

Planes RARELY get shot down. And mostly at least one plane can go through the whole time of the Ability. May it be Sturmovik,Vanguard Airstrike or P47's as USF.

The Damage on Infantry is.. Questionable..

My Solution would be, if i understood correctly, to increase rate of fire a bit, so it could cause the critical to shoot down the plane, and one guard squad can't take it on all alone


+1
30 Oct 2018, 23:33 PM
#34
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



+1

+ another 1

Although the one shortcoming of the centaur is that it’s slow as fuck. Also, pretty much every axis tank can shoot down planes with the pintle mount, and 222 is much better aa, making the ostwind somewhat redundant as an aa platform no matter what.

Ostwind should still get some sort of buff though. IMO there’s absolutely no reason to build one instead of a p4 (p4 can even shoot down planes lel) unless you’re meming or BMing or something.
31 Oct 2018, 01:33 AM
#35
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

What would a small price reduction look like? Or better yet a decent vet 1 that reflects the uniqueness of the unit?
31 Oct 2018, 11:28 AM
#36
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1



it provides basically the same AI ability as centaur



You can't be serious. Centaur has massive burst damage and wipes units much better than Ostwind

My opinion: AA is fine since axis already have MGs. I'd say increase far accuracy and reduce damage AoE a bit. Also could use a bit of fuel reduction.
31 Oct 2018, 11:59 AM
#37
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Oct 2018, 11:28 AMRMMLz


You can't be serious. Centaur has massive burst damage and wipes units much better than Ostwind

My opinion: AA is fine since axis already have MGs. I'd say increase far accuracy and reduce damage AoE a bit. Also could use a bit of fuel reduction.

Centaur was hit with pretty heavy nerfs.
There is a reason why its no longer used.

Its vet1 burst was also massively nerfed.

It still does damage and probably still is better then cromwell, but its not as good as you think it is.
31 Oct 2018, 12:09 PM
#38
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Oct 2018, 11:59 AMKatitof

Centaur was hit with pretty heavy nerfs.
There is a reason why its no longer used.

Its vet1 burst was also massively nerfed.

It still does damage and probably still is better then cromwell, but its not as good as you think it is.


I was just comparing it to Ostwind. I do remember how it was when the Brits were released. But compared to Ostwind its better, but I'm not saying its op or anything, it's Ok as it is. I was just pointing out that it counters infantry better than Ostwind.
31 Oct 2018, 14:52 PM
#39
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2018, 15:16 PMSully


A rate of fire buff could fix most of its issues, agreed.


Or just increase the chances to kill planes to basically 100%. Due to cost and performance, all main AA platforms should provide a no-no zone for planes. That been the case, i would go as further as making all mounted MG weaker in the AA department or directly removing it and just buffing the alternatives. No one upgrades the MG of a tank thinking they want better AA.

We should have Tier 1 AA which basically instakill planes and Tier 2 AA which will eventually kill planes (mostly against loiter) and have a reduced range.

T1: Bofor/Centaur, OKW commander defense emplacement/Flak HT, USF AAHT, M5 Quad and Ostwind.

T2: all non upgraded HT, M3, 222, OKW Flak HQ, M20, any other unit i might miss.
1 Nov 2018, 01:49 AM
#40
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Oct 2018, 11:59 AMKatitof

Centaur was hit with pretty heavy nerfs.
...

"There is a reason why its no longer abused..."
Fixed it.



Or just increase the chances to kill planes to basically 100%. Due to cost and performance, all main AA platforms should provide a no-no zone for planes. That been the case, i would go as further as making all mounted MG weaker in the AA department or directly removing it and just buffing the alternatives. No one upgrades the MG of a tank thinking they want better AA.

We should have Tier 1 AA which basically instakill planes and Tier 2 AA which will eventually kill planes (mostly against loiter) and have a reduced range.

T1: Bofor/Centaur, OKW commander defense emplacement/Flak HT, USF AAHT, M5 Quad and Ostwind.

T2: all non upgraded HT, M3, 222, OKW Flak HQ, M20, any other unit i might miss.


I coulnt agree any more. +1
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