Of course, one DP-27 will be bad - because the DP-27 is the worst machine gun in the game and needs a buff.
It will also be bad, because its a weapon unsuitable to how the squad is supposed to be used, which is closer distance fights.
Weapon upgrades for standard infatry squads
20 Nov 2018, 14:27 PM
#41
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
It will also be bad, because its a weapon unsuitable to how the squad is supposed to be used, which is closer distance fights.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
20 Nov 2018, 14:54 PM
#42
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
It will also be bad, because its a weapon unsuitable to how the squad is supposed to be used, which is closer distance fights.
If Conscripts take Ober MG-34, they become very strong. Then that MG-34 does a lot of damage. In any case, the DP-27 requires a buff to the level of other machine guns.
20 Nov 2018, 17:09 PM
#43
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
aw shit I necro'd 
20 Nov 2018, 18:21 PM
#44
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Couldn't agree more. Probably an unpopular opinion here but I feel like infantry combat was best.... When vet wasn't working. Maybe vet as a whole needs to be toned down so we have less bulletproof terminators and sticking to cover is important all game long or bleed like a stuck pig...
HMmm but squads were terminators because defensive bonuses were applying and the offensive ones were the one's lost due to the bug. This is why conscript felt "fine" cause they were not bleeding as much. People didn't notice it because the jump on the DPS was done through weapon upgrades or Elites and most of the bleed late game came through AoE or tanks.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
20 Nov 2018, 20:55 PM
#45
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
aw shit I necro'd
Its a recurring discussion and unsolved problem, so no big deal in necro.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
20 Nov 2018, 20:56 PM
#46
Posts: 5279
Dp28 doesn't need a buff. It's a package deal always that is rather cheap. Button needs a price drop perhaps, but dp28s are fine as as.
But an lmg doesn't suit cons. They are not sit and plink the enemy away troops. Hit the dirt at vet 1 could be nice. Oorah doctrinal with ppshs would be interesting. But cons would still need something or they would still get trounced by the massvly more expensive volks.
But an lmg doesn't suit cons. They are not sit and plink the enemy away troops. Hit the dirt at vet 1 could be nice. Oorah doctrinal with ppshs would be interesting. But cons would still need something or they would still get trounced by the massvly more expensive volks.
#stalinwept
20 Nov 2018, 23:15 PM
#47
Posts: 573
At this point the most realistic solution to unwanted Conscript problem is making PPSh upgrade for them non-doctrinal and giving commanders that have this ability some sort of utility that synergizes with it (unlike hit the ground)
20 Nov 2018, 23:26 PM
#48
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
At this point the most realistic solution to unwanted Conscript problem is making PPSh upgrade for them non-doctrinal and giving commanders that have this ability some sort of utility that synergizes with it (unlike hit the ground)
And this is realistic because it would make shock troops extremely popular?
or
because Soviet are struggling and they need a buff?
20 Nov 2018, 23:31 PM
#49
Posts: 573
Shocks actually synergize with PPSh Cons, since Shocks have smoke nades PPSh Cons can attack MG's directly without flanking, they also can threaten wipes with nades while Cons dont and if Shocks are focused you could merge nearby PPSh Cons into them to keep them fighting.
20 Nov 2018, 23:49 PM
#50
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Shocks actually synergize with PPSh Cons, since Shocks have smoke nades PPSh Cons can attack MG's directly without flanking, they also can threaten wipes with nades while Cons dont and if Shocks are focused you could merge nearby PPSh Cons into them to keep them fighting.
Think allot of people would disagree with that claim. Actually Soviet Shock Army is probably the least picked doctrine that has Ppshs.
Now if only there was unit that could create a smoke screen, like a mortar.
Shock are probably the worse unit to merge to.
20 Nov 2018, 23:55 PM
#51
Posts: 573
The point is - If people would not use Shocks and instead prefer non-doc PPSh Cons it would mean Shocks are way too weak even after small buffs they got last patch.
21 Nov 2018, 00:11 AM
#52
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
The point is - If people would not use Shocks and instead prefer non-doc PPSh Cons it would mean Shocks are way too weak even after small buffs they got last patch.
So lets buff shocks even more because it the "only realistic" solution after all Soviets are clearly struggling.
Yes that sounds about right.
21 Nov 2018, 00:30 AM
#53
Posts: 573
Nobody claimed here Soviets are struggling, Conscripts however are not used and thats the point of the thread.
21 Nov 2018, 05:39 AM
#54
Posts: 91
I think giving cons PPSh would be too big, cause it leads to a massive soviet commander revamps, and could break balance even worse than not having a PPSh.
I actually sometimes use PPSh cons AND shocks. Shocks have a problem getting to CQC, so I use cons like a distraction to make a fighting mess, while my shocks get close to enemy. Sometimes it works well, sometimes not. But it's good on maps with lots of buildings and corners such as Trois Pont or Ettelbruck.
So if we give cons PPSh - shocks will be irrelevant, if we give them SVT - penals become useless. And DP works bad as well. Maybe take PTRS from penals and give it to Cons? In that way cons would be a multi-purpose infantry but not very strong in any kind. And Penals may get a DP to make them AI specialist unit?
I actually sometimes use PPSh cons AND shocks. Shocks have a problem getting to CQC, so I use cons like a distraction to make a fighting mess, while my shocks get close to enemy. Sometimes it works well, sometimes not. But it's good on maps with lots of buildings and corners such as Trois Pont or Ettelbruck.
So if we give cons PPSh - shocks will be irrelevant, if we give them SVT - penals become useless. And DP works bad as well. Maybe take PTRS from penals and give it to Cons? In that way cons would be a multi-purpose infantry but not very strong in any kind. And Penals may get a DP to make them AI specialist unit?
What doesn't kill you - postpones the inevitable
21 Nov 2018, 07:12 AM
#55
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
three AVT-40, I think it will be easy to change the SVT-40 to the AVT-40 by firing in short bursts (2-3 shots), it will be between PPS-41 and SVT-40 (but closer to SVT-40).
21 Nov 2018, 07:52 AM
#56
Posts: 5279
Avt would be a cool weapon, but I'll suited for conscripts for the sake of flavor. For guards or even CE....
#stalinwept
21 Nov 2018, 09:18 AM
#57
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Nobody claimed here Soviets are struggling, Conscripts however are not used and thats the point of the thread.
Let me explain how this has worked so far. People complained that Soviet always went for maxims, so they decided to buff Penals, but then they had to buff Guards, but now they have to buff Shock and now you want to buff conscripts. Then will have to buff the maxim again because nobody is using it...and so on.
Buffing a units to make it more attractive is simply the wrong way to about it, there is power level that is good and units should not exceed that power level. Units should have different roles so people choose them for what they bring to the table and not because they are OP.
Adding PPsh to conscripts is simply not "the only realistic" solution. It is actually a bad solution.
21 Nov 2018, 09:37 AM
#58
Posts: 374
What about keeping ppsh doctrinal and giving them an SVT package that comes with a REAL GRENADE, so they can operate similar to the grenadiers with g43?
In my Ideal world, conscripts would be like 140mp with really low reinforce but same stats, so we can swarm the germans without too much bleed.
I also dislike the theme of penals being the elite troop choice for soviets, the USSR actually had many elite units, all called HERO units historically. I'd much rather have hero soldiers with svt's rather than penals. (even just thematically) ((Hero Strelkovy anyone?))
In my Ideal world, conscripts would be like 140mp with really low reinforce but same stats, so we can swarm the germans without too much bleed.
I also dislike the theme of penals being the elite troop choice for soviets, the USSR actually had many elite units, all called HERO units historically. I'd much rather have hero soldiers with svt's rather than penals. (even just thematically) ((Hero Strelkovy anyone?))
21 Nov 2018, 09:39 AM
#59
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
What about keeping ppsh doctrinal and giving them an SVT package that comes with a REAL GRENADE, so they can operate similar to the grenadiers with g43?
In my Ideal world, conscripts would be like 140mp with really low reinforce but same stats, so we can swarm the germans without too much bleed.
I also dislike the theme of penals being elite, the USSR actually had many elite units, all called HERO units historically. I'd much rather have hero soldiers with svt's rather than penals. (even just thematically)
I can't even imagine how incredibly overpowered that would be.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
21 Nov 2018, 09:43 AM
#60
Posts: 374
I can't even imagine how incredibly overpowered that would be.
Oh, so OP, but a man can dream right?
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