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russian armor

Rear Echeleons need reworking.

3 Sep 2018, 23:43 PM
#62
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



Tactical advance has tradeoffs though not as severe. And yes, you should be grateful of having the luxury of getting killed just like the Stug has the luxury of taking forever to aim and load a TWP while getting shot at and getting itself killed. No fixing the RE until the TWP gets fixed. Stug got its ability, base stats and pop cap nerfed while RE remains a good unit even without volley.

Tactical advance does what it advertises. Volley fire does not. TWP is a separate issue unlinked to an underused unit with an awful ability. Soviet tanks have fucking cap territories regardless of its intended role so at least be happy TWP has a job, even if it was over nerfed. But again REGARDLESS of other abilities volkey fire sucks and needs addressed. It could be removed and wouldn't be missed and that is a sign of an underpowered ability. The fact that RE are unattractive to begin with (unlike the stug) makes it even worse. An attractive unit with a decent ability is at least serviceable, an unattractive unit with a worthless ability might as well not be...
3 Sep 2018, 23:54 PM
#63
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned

Tactical advance does what it advertises. Volley fire does not. TWP is a separate issue unlinked to an underused unit with an awful ability. Soviet tanks have fucking cap territories regardless of its intended role so at least be happy TWP has a job, even if it was over nerfed. But again REGARDLESS of other abilities volkey fire sucks and needs addressed. It could be removed and wouldn't be missed and that is a sign of an underpowered ability. The fact that RE are unattractive to begin with (unlike the stug) makes it even worse. An attractive unit with a decent ability is at least serviceable, an unattractive unit with a worthless ability might as well not be...


How is the RE unattractive? They match the combat effectiveness of pios and pios have 3 special abilities as well better sight, tellers, and mg bunkers. So if RE suck then pios suck. Stugs however are no longer popular after the RoF nerf IN ADDITION to the pop cap nerf (which the SU76 didn't get) nor did the abilities of the Su76 get nerfed as hard as stug twp. Most players rather get pak + p4 than stug + ostwind/pgrens.
4 Sep 2018, 00:01 AM
#64
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808



How is the RE unattractive? They match the combat effectiveness of pios and pios have 3 special abilities as well better sight, tellers, and mg bunkers. So if RE suck then pios suck. Stugs however are no longer popular after the RoF nerf IN ADDITION to the pop cap nerf (which the SU76 didn't get) nor did the abilities of the Su76 get nerfed as hard as stug twp. Most players rather get pak + p4 than stug + ostwind/pgrens.


on top of that many players double zook equip ther echelons making an effective anti-tank squad.
4 Sep 2018, 08:52 AM
#65
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

RE should be maybe 10-20mp more cheap on squad cost, that's about it.

I liked the suggestions about fighting positions, I would go a step further and double the rifle nade range if you garrison a RE inside. That would give you a soft counter to enemy garrisons and make them actually useful.
4 Sep 2018, 09:18 AM
#66
avatar of Stark

Posts: 626 | Subs: 1

And another coh2 balance discussion makes a life circle. Few years ago there was huge butthurt about RE being too cheap and to easy to afford - covered with Captain were perfect to blob with 2x zook or 2x bar. Reminds me old CaptainPrice blobs on 2v2s. That cancer was epic.

But people forgot about that great time and again they wanna reduce the reinforcing price...

Until that unit can be equipted with 2 weapon upgrades they can't be any price reduction. If you wanna do something give them upgrades or diffrent abilities etc.
4 Sep 2018, 09:30 AM
#67
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Sep 2018, 09:18 AMStark
And another coh2 balance discussion makes a life circle. Few years ago there was huge butthurt about RE being too cheap and to easy to afford - covered with Captain were perfect to blob with 2x zook or 2x bar. Reminds me old CaptainPrice blobs on 2v2s. That cancer was epic.

But people forgot about that great time and again they wanna reduce the reinforcing price...

Until that unit can be equipted with 2 weapon upgrades they can't be any price reduction. If you wanna do something give them upgrades or diffrent abilities etc.

And first year conscripts were great, but for 4 following years, up to latest changes were utter trash unable to be used at any role other then AT nade throwers and cappers.

What's your point?

If a unit is shit, it needs love, it couldn't matter less how it was X time ago, when now its utter trash.
4 Sep 2018, 09:33 AM
#68
avatar of Onimusha

Posts: 149

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Sep 2018, 09:18 AMStark
And another coh2 balance discussion makes a life circle. Few years ago there was huge butthurt about RE being too cheap and to easy to afford - covered with Captain were perfect to blob with 2x zook or 2x bar. Reminds me old CaptainPrice blobs on 2v2s. That cancer was epic.

But people forgot about that great time and again they wanna reduce the reinforcing price...

Until that unit can be equipted with 2 weapon upgrades they can't be any price reduction. If you wanna do something give them upgrades or diffrent abilities etc.


Maybe, but meta has changed, 180 isn't 160 like old days, 20 reduction could be viable, and you can't upgrade double lmg now. In current meta with stg volks and no more shreck volks, a double bar RE is really squishy , hard to close combat with RE blob without losing tons of models. You really would choose to spend 120 muni on that squad only cause 20 mp less than before? I don't think so. Nobody will do it.

EDIT: i think is the same for a reinforcing price reduction.
4 Sep 2018, 10:18 AM
#69
avatar of Stark

Posts: 626 | Subs: 1


And first year conscripts were great, but for 4 following years, up to latest changes were utter trash unable to be used at any role other then AT nade throwers and cappers.

What's your point?

If a unit is shit, it needs love, it couldn't matter less how it was X time ago, when now its utter trash.


Sweety, nothing change from that moment. Rears statistics haven't been touched - they even got smoke nade. If you make them cheap like water then you will end up with huge "a" moved blob. I don't wanna see that anymore.

You are a smart boy, you can read and you noticed i haven't said they shouldn't be changed at all. Just don't mess up with cheaper cost and reinforcing price - that's all
4 Sep 2018, 10:36 AM
#70
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

I've said love, not discount, I'd much rather see suppressive volley actually useful and that would be sufficient.

We're not talking about making them Obers vol.2.
4 Sep 2018, 11:12 AM
#71
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Volley Fire's one of those abilities that's trash when it doesn't work and oppressive when it does. I'd lean towards ditching it entirely and giving REs some more general utility.

Untying their smoke (but not the officer smoke) from the grenade unlock's one idea. Giving them a basic rifle grenade locked behind Vet 2's another.
4 Sep 2018, 12:08 PM
#72
avatar of Stark

Posts: 626 | Subs: 1

I've said love, not discount, I'd much rather see suppressive volley actually useful and that would be sufficient.

We're not talking about making them Obers vol.2.


And after all we end up with the same conclusion. Agree - volley fire needs some love
4 Sep 2018, 14:06 PM
#73
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 310

Here's an idea about Rear Echelons (since Axis mains AGAIN reject every idea). Remove Volley Fire (that annoys you so much) and give them the ability "Deploy Marksman" that CoH1's Infantry Sections had.

You can also just give them M3 Grease guns.

You can also think of an idea to make them a slightly better fighting squad.
4 Sep 2018, 14:20 PM
#74
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Here's an idea about Rear Echelons (since Axis mains AGAIN reject every idea)


Why does it matter what they say? Relic and the balance teams make the decisions. They're just as capable of ignoring the people who see balancing as a competition as the rest of us are.
4 Sep 2018, 14:27 PM
#75
avatar of Olekman
Modmaker Badge

Posts: 208

Personally, I'd love to see an upgrade that replaces one of their M1 Carbines with permanent rifle grenades. It most likely won't happen, because the current commander revamp focuses more on, well, commanders and giving UKF a snare.

Still, maybe this upgrade idea could be used for the next USF commander, as the models are already there and it wouldn't be that hard to implement.
4 Sep 2018, 14:29 PM
#76
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220


You can also just give them M3 Grease guns.

For me this is awesome option.
60 muni for 4 grease guns sounds good and i guess balanced
4 Sep 2018, 14:41 PM
#77
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

Rear Echelon need a small armor buff.
4 Sep 2018, 15:00 PM
#78
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 310

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Sep 2018, 14:20 PMLago


Why does it matter what they say? Relic and the balance teams make the decisions. They're just as capable of ignoring the people who see balancing as a competition as the rest of us are.


I'm not talking about the Relic and balance teams, i'm talking about the player base in general. And to clarify this, we are not trying to create a Rambo Squad, we are trying to make the engineers of USF a little bit more combat effective, NOT on the same level as Stumps for example, but improve them slightly. People here have the impression that we want them to perform similar to Paratroopers or Rangers.


For me this is awesome option.
60 muni for 4 grease guns sounds good and i guess balanced


I guess it would work, it would add some CQB firepower so that they can survive more in the field
4 Sep 2018, 15:14 PM
#79
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
If RE are utter trash, then so are pios.
4 Sep 2018, 15:21 PM
#80
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 310

If RE are utter trash, then so are pios.


At least Pios manage to kill 1-2 models from enemy squads in point blank, unlike RE who can't hit an elephant standing still in front of them
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