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HMG-34 in DPP

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7 Nov 2017, 15:29 PM
#61
avatar of Switzerland
Donator 33

Posts: 545



Here, it shoot at mid range from 0:06 to 1:09 before being able to supress the squad.

@Miragefla same as mg42 ?

This is BS, and test both hmg in green cover to see more bs. :huhsign:


Lol do you mean PIN the squad? the squads SUPPRESSED in the first burst. Kinda pointless for you to be complaining on threads if your mixing up game mechanics right?
7 Nov 2017, 15:39 PM
#62
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Nov 2017, 15:19 PMbert69
funny thing is once rifles and penals get to vet 3, mg34 doesn't even get a chance to suppress. Double bren IS Blobs wiping mg42/34 faster than it can even suppress still happens btw.

Either give it another suppression buff or more damage, currently it makes more sense to just build more volks to contest the map.


I think this is a good point: RA affects suppression.

Furthermore as the game progresses yellow cover appears all over the map, which throttles accuracy by half.

This makes non-MG42s struggle to perform as MGs.
7 Nov 2017, 16:17 PM
#63
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

The real question is does hmg34 have to much damage far to require a nerf to it DPS? If not the damage lost from new crew weapons should be move to the gun itself.

Then it would be a "bug" fix as advertised and not a balance change.
7 Nov 2017, 16:54 PM
#64
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1



I think this is a good point: RA affects suppression.

Furthermore as the game progresses yellow cover appears all over the map, which throttles accuracy by half.

This makes non-MG42s struggle to perform as MGs.


Pretty sure that's not the case - Miragefla said that a HMG could have 0% accuracy and still suppress (it's a separate effect that's applied). It's more that yellow cover itself reduces the suppression applied. Also it's a fact that MG34 has a very similar suppression profile to MG42 - it just does less damage so any perceived struggle as a HMG is just the fact that you can't rely on damage to force retreats - you need actual support to force off the suppressed squads.

It's more of a question "Does OKW need a HMG that deals good-ish DPS in addition to MG-42 levels of suppression?" Look, I know it makes life easier if you can plop a MG-34 down somewhere and know that it can easily force off squads with minimal support just by it's own DPS and suppression but is that what's best for balance? Do you want to play against an OKW that can back-stop it's Luches pressure and infantry-heavy playstyle with a pseudo-MG42?
7 Nov 2017, 17:04 PM
#65
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

My point is more about timing.

But you are correct, suppression is still dealt by hmgs even with 0 accuracy.

But, that said, units being shot at don't recover from suppression (as fast.) Keeping a unit suppressed is affected by RA.

So more accurately, RA affects suppression recovery.

It's been a bit since I tested this, though.
7 Nov 2017, 17:12 PM
#66
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


Pretty sure that's not the case - Miragefla said that a HMG could have 0% accuracy and still suppress (it's a separate effect that's applied)...

That is not exactly accurate.
Suppression applies even if shot miss but AOE suppression does not. A bullet has to hit to apply AOE suppression on squad near the target.

In addition as pointed out the recovery is affected by taking damage.

So accuracy has an effect on HMG performance.


It's more of a question "Does OKW need a HMG that deals good-ish DPS in addition to MG-42 levels of suppression?"

They already have it and I haven't seen anyone complain that it is op. So why nerf it?

In you opinion is HMG34 currently OP in live?
7 Nov 2017, 17:41 PM
#67
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



Lol do you mean PIN the squad? the squads SUPPRESSED in the first burst. Kinda pointless for you to be complaining on threads if your mixing up game mechanics right?


Kinda pointless bitching about naming. Riflemen could at any moment crawl and throw nade, and you are strawmanning over semantics like the biggest retard ever like if semantics is a worthy balance argument.
7 Nov 2017, 17:47 PM
#68
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660


It's more of a question "Does OKW need a HMG that deals good-ish DPS in addition to MG-42 levels of suppression?"


@miragefla@Mr.Smith@BSpropagandapreachers
Stop saying it's similar to mg42, it isn't.
It will never ever pin down any squad before it can crawl in yellow cover and throw grenade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfZx-ViRjog
7 Nov 2017, 17:53 PM
#69
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587




USF seems perfectly fine with a HMG that has better dps, mg42 suppresion and enough penetration to wipe the floor with a 222/251 (hurts luchs with the vet 1 ability).

Any argument you make against a decent HMG for OKW is null and void when you look at the 50 call.
7 Nov 2017, 19:07 PM
#70
avatar of Switzerland
Donator 33

Posts: 545

Well not knowing game mechanics names makes discussion kinda pointless. fyi, apart from DSHK no MG passes your test, if they increase the supression to make every MG pin in yellow cover scenario that means insta pin in any other scenario. logic.
7 Nov 2017, 19:36 PM
#71
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2



USF seems perfectly fine with a HMG that has better dps, mg42 suppresion and enough penetration to wipe the floor with a 222/251 (hurts luchs with the vet 1 ability).

Any argument you make against a decent HMG for OKW is null and void when you look at the 50 call.

USF only gets this mg at 6-8 minutes in if theyre against ostheer though. If you're against okw, you're not getting it before 8 minutes unless you take a risk and tech lieutenant. This is part of why (in my opinion) usf does much better against ostheer, it can tech lieutenant and hmgs unpunished.

My point is that the .50 will come out later than the mg34 would in a usf vs okw match, and at or around the time an mg34 would in a usf vs ostheer match. It's something to consider when discussing their timings/balance.
7 Nov 2017, 20:34 PM
#72
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned


this!

And additional:

axis must deal with the mass infantery spam with better infantery than axis have...so OKW should get at leat something vs early mg spam...on so many maps you can easily make base lock vs OKW


Isnt OKW have too strong infatry and things like AA HT ?
7 Nov 2017, 20:51 PM
#73
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2

Well not knowing game mechanics names makes discussion kinda pointless. fyi, apart from DSHK no MG passes your test, if they increase the supression to make every MG pin in yellow cover scenario that means insta pin in any other scenario. logic.


Most weapons have a x0.50 suppression and accuracy penalty against yellow cover. Lot's of craters in the lategame paired with low received accuracy elite infantry easily causes situations where units just walk up to you into grenade throwing range without getting supressed.
7 Nov 2017, 20:57 PM
#74
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

There's also the glitch where units will continue to move at full speed when suppressed until given a new command. Only then do they drop to the ground and start crawling slowly.
7 Nov 2017, 21:46 PM
#75
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1



USF seems perfectly fine with a HMG that has better dps, mg42 suppresion and enough penetration to wipe the floor with a 222/251 (hurts luchs with the vet 1 ability).

Any argument you make against a decent HMG for OKW is null and void when you look at the 50 call.


Similar to what Jae talked about USF design makes it harder for .50 Cal to be overly dominant since it's locked behind LT tech whereas OKW gets MG-34 and Raketen regardless of tech choice. When USF has to make Sophie's choice of suppression or hard AT then it needs a HMG that fulfills some light AT role (e.g. it needs good damage and penetration). It also needs to be good enough to justify teching (or back-teching) to LT at all or else you'd rarely see that tier. You could also argue it's more expensive and should perform as such. Yes it's proof that a OKW-esqe faction can have a higher DPS HMG and not be totally busted but there are reasons for it working.



@miragefla@Mr.Smith@BSpropagandapreachers
Stop saying it's similar to mg42, it isn't.


Give it a rest, Miragefla posted the stats that are in game - you can't change the numbers that prove otherwise. Also, I totally missed that part in the video where the squad crawled forward and naded the MG despite getting suppressed in the first burst. Meanwhile Vickers cries in the corner and wishes it could reliably suppress in the first burst but that's neither here nor there.
7 Nov 2017, 23:03 PM
#76
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Nov 2017, 17:12 PMVipper
In addition as pointed out the recovery is affected by taking damage.

They already have it and I haven't seen anyone complain that it is op. So why nerf it?


Hmm isn't recovery affected by been on combat, irregardless of taking damage or not ?

I'll advocate for a buff but not fixing a bug just because the unit is not OP is not a good reason.
Decrease vet requirements and 2>3 damage and call it a day ?
7 Nov 2017, 23:10 PM
#77
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Meanwhile Vickers cries in the corner and wishes it could reliably suppress in the first burst but that's neither here nor there.


You know, I wonder how functional a vickers clone would be for okw. Vickers may not suppress too well, but it is good in garrisons and it drops models rather well.

Something like that might be a good role for the mg34...
7 Nov 2017, 23:40 PM
#78
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Along with original crew DPS drop, there comes a reinforcement cost decrease. From 25MP to 22MP per model. The quality of the patchnotes is not up-to-par. Thus, can you please also test your claims in game, before making a new thread about each issue?



In terms of suppression, yes. Unless MG34/MG42 get bit by the suppression bug which the DBP fixes.

If you are picking a live-version Maxim over a live-version MG34, I'm sorry, but you're clueless.


Did you not read? And actually, I wouldn't want any of those mgs. But if you think you can get away with thinking the mg34 is fine, then you are clueless. It can't fight any 6 to 5 men allied infantry properly. It is pathetic.
8 Nov 2017, 00:27 AM
#80
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660



Isnt OKW have too strong infatry and things like AA HT ?


Aa ht is useless trash get luchs
Cit. Sturmpanther..
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