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russian armor

My USF Recon commander rework

9 Oct 2021, 09:09 AM
#1
avatar of Easy ♠

Posts: 57

The Recon commander serves no real role currently. I'm proposing to make this commander a hit and run & ambush specialist. It should function like a light reconnaissance force more true to it's name. At the moment it's a real mismatch of units and abilities that don't synergise at all.
* Remove Raid Tactics
* Add M10 Wolverine tank destroyer
* Add option to upgrade Greyhound's turret to function like an AEC
* Remove the mine drop, replace with reconnasaince plane loiter
* Replace Paratrooper support team and Howitzer with ambush paratroopers and AT gun drop.
* Give the paratroopers and AT gun the option to upgrade to camouflage similar to OST's camo.

--

* Raid Tactics seems misplaced. If you wanted to take advantage of this ability, you'd rather opt for a fast M20 but getting a Greyhound is main attraction of this commander. The Greyhound however comes out too late to really harass enemy cut offs, by the time you get to 4 CP a 222 will already be on the field and it has an easy time bullying it.

* The IR pathfinders and M10 Wolverine can work together to utilize hit and run tactics using the M10's speed and Pathfinders extended vision, giving the tank destroyer more survivability and an actual use over the Jackson. Locating enemy weak points, they can be in and out. Somewhat of a tactical counter to pwerfer and stukas.

* The Greyhound is really pointless. You can have a Stuart out on the field sooner and it performs better.

* Paratroopers with an AT gun could upgrade camouflage so you can quickly drop them in with the use of Beacons from pathfinders to quickly set up a tank ambush.

* Recon commander with no air recon? It doesn't make any sense. They should have a recon plane loiter instead of the cluster mines so you can take advantage of your opponents weak points and give your lighter vehicles more survivability.
9 Oct 2021, 09:23 AM
#2
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 716

For Greyhound,I think it could be 0cp but tech request same as Major,need CP+LT or T2/T3 mechanization upgrade
9 Oct 2021, 11:07 AM
#3
avatar of Easy ♠

Posts: 57

For Greyhound,I think it could be 0cp but tech request same as Major,need CP+LT or T2/T3 mechanization upgrade

It needs to come sooner to be useful.
9 Oct 2021, 11:19 AM
#4
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 471

Recon commander is actually pretty decent pick in 1v1 against WM.
IR pathfinder's sight and it's barrage is very useful against mg or AT.

pak-howi + airborne is very cost effective skill that enhances vs inf. power signifantly.

Only thing I don't like about it is Greyhound, but still, it got very good buff(bug fix that has been lasted forever) lately.
9 Oct 2021, 11:40 AM
#5
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1482

The only real change I'd make is reduce the muni cost on the drop and increase MP cost or add a bit of fuel cost. I'd also improve the greyhound AT power and slightly nerf the AI.
Otherwise it's a good 1v1 pick. Not really a teamgame pick as it's muni intensive and Airborne is a better pick if you want sight.
11 Oct 2021, 02:07 AM
#6
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 760

I just came in to say that Raid Tactics isn't only light vehicles any more, any vehicle can use it.
20 Oct 2021, 01:56 AM
#7
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 725

I just wish after the first para drop with the pak you could call single paratroops squad or make them buildable at HQ. Why> because maybe i want double paras but dont want to pay for expensive paras with the pak that i dont have pop room for really,and also ability to replace lost para squad or squads
20 Oct 2021, 19:36 PM
#8
avatar of IntoTheRain

Posts: 179

Raid Tactics just always felt out of place to me. If they broke the Pack Howie drop off from the Airborne and put it in Raid Tactics slot I would use it a lot more. LMG Paras wouldn't cost 200 munitions to get then.

Greyhound comes out really late but is surprisingly similar in power to a T-70 once it hits the field. I'd prefer if they had balanced it closer to an Armored Car rather than a light tank. As is it just doesn't hit the field until only a minute or two before mediums can start popping out.

They really could have gone a lot further with the commander overhaul than they did. Armor and Rifle likewise got incredibly mediocre changes.
22 Oct 2021, 02:20 AM
#9
avatar of beemer8

Posts: 104

The M8Greyhounds my favourite part of that commander, I just wish i'd come out at 3 cp's, but then it would be OP for how much it snipes infantry and would need to be nerfed again. Honestly everything in that commander I end up using using at some point or another, the least used skill ends up being the raid tactics, its nice, it just cost 40 munitions, and i'd rather spend the munitions on anything else other then to cap.
25 Oct 2021, 06:05 AM
#10
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 643

M8 Greyhound should be swapped with the M20 Utility Car.

The M20 was a derivative of the M8 Greyhound series. The chief difference between the two armored cars was the absence of a turret which allowed the M20 to feature benches and specialized radio equipment for use as an artillery spotter, reconnaissance vehicle, or personnel carrier.


Thematically it would not only make sense but would also make sense from a design perspective as well. Currently the M20 and Stuart overlap in function/role. Swapping these units would allow these units to provide different roles and remove the overlap while also improving the Recon Commander at the same time. M20 in Recon Commander could be 3 CP unit. Greyhound in Platoon Command Post could act as a soft AT vehicle (also fitting with the LT who happens to have a Bazooka) while Stuart would be the AI/Generalist vehicle.
25 Oct 2021, 11:46 AM
#11
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

Currently the M20 and Stuart overlap in function/role.


They do what now?
25 Oct 2021, 12:29 PM
#12
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 760



They do what now?


I think he meant to say M8 and M20.

EDIT: And I meant to say M8 and Stuart lol.
25 Oct 2021, 14:06 PM
#13
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 889

I've used the Greyhound as a fun and extremely difficult to pin down interceptor unit. Can scare off 222s easily, threaten Luchs even and is great at punishing caps. And then there's the sight range which can make it perform exceptionally as a scout.

Vet 0: 50 sight range
Vet 1: 60 sight range
Vet III: 78 sight range iirc

Thus it is almost impossible to kill with AT guns except for pre-prepared death traps and roves the battlefield as a real menace. Generally anything that can really threaten a Greyhound will also flatten a Stuart too. Its timing is late but earlier and it becomes outrageous.
25 Oct 2021, 16:19 PM
#14
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1849 | Subs: 1

I've used the Greyhound as a fun and extremely difficult to pin down interceptor unit. Can scare off 222s easily, threaten Luchs even and is great at punishing caps. And then there's the sight range which can make it perform exceptionally as a scout.

Vet 0: 50 sight range
Vet 1: 60 sight range
Vet III: 78 sight range iirc

Thus it is almost impossible to kill with AT guns except for pre-prepared death traps and roves the battlefield as a real menace. Generally anything that can really threaten a Greyhound will also flatten a Stuart too. Its timing is late but earlier and it becomes outrageous.


The fact that it's so fun is what makes it so annoying that the timing is what really holds it back. The sight range is definitely an undervalued aspect of the Greyhound - I recently used it in a game to siege a Flak truck with AT guns because you can spot at max range with it while the Greyhound provides AI support. So good. Cannister Shot is also the Spanish Inquisition of abilities (especially when you see HMGs behind light cover and you vaporize it). I think you could fiddle with the timing by making it 3CP but build time - just give it the Luches treatment and increase the build time until it hits at a non oppressive timing given average fuel control. Sadly probably won't ever have a patch with sufficient enough testing to make that work.
25 Oct 2021, 18:45 PM
#15
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1849 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Oct 2021, 02:20 AMbeemer8
the least used skill ends up being the raid tactics, its nice, it just cost 40 munitions, and i'd rather spend the munitions on anything else other then to cap.


Yeah, it's better suited for another commander that's strong in it's on right but needs a munitions sink that's not some crazy offmap. Recon Company is munitions sink:the commander, it's VERY hard to float munitions as early game you probably want to save for Paratroopers and late game you're probably spamming butterfly bombs so Raid Tactics is rarely used aside from late game desperation capping.
31 Oct 2021, 23:40 PM
#16
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3047

Recon commander is actually pretty decent pick in 1v1 against WM.
IR pathfinder's sight and it's barrage is very useful against mg or AT.

pak-howi + airborne is very cost effective skill that enhances vs inf. power signifantly.

Only thing I don't like about it is Greyhound, but still, it got very good buff(bug fix that has been lasted forever) lately.

Wait what bug on the greyhound got fixed? I wasn't even aware it was bugged.
1 Nov 2021, 20:15 PM
#17
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 905


Vet 0: 50 sight range
Vet 1: 60 sight range

I don't know if this is calculated from the centre of the vehicle. With grid activated in cheat mode you can see it is only 45 sight range from the front of the M8 and 55 with vet1. This makes scouting pretty dangerous if there are AT-Guns or JPIVs with their own scouting support around.



Vet III: 78 sight range iirc

In the Veterancy guide at this side there is stated a 30% sight increase at Vet3. The guide was last updated at 3th of march in 2021. I can't find a note at the changelog after that date where it got removed, but in the actual game a Vet3 Greyhound has 55 sight range from front of vehicle just as a Vet1 one.

Having 30% sight bonus at Vet3 would make M8 useful in late game actually if you can keep it alive long enough. Finally recon support would have a vehicle that would live up to its name. With about 55 sight I rather use Vet1 55 sight range pathfinders which can cloak on top. A lot more sneaky and durable.
1 Nov 2021, 22:50 PM
#18
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 760



Yeah, it's better suited for another commander that's strong in it's on right but needs a munitions sink that's not some crazy offmap. Recon Company is munitions sink:the commander, it's VERY hard to float munitions as early game you probably want to save for Paratroopers and late game you're probably spamming butterfly bombs so Raid Tactics is rarely used aside from late game desperation capping.


You'd think armor or mechanized company would be a better fit.
2 Nov 2021, 14:21 PM
#19
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 889


I don't know if this is calculated from the centre of the vehicle. With grid activated in cheat mode you can see it is only 45 sight range from the front of the M8 and 55 with vet1. This makes scouting pretty dangerous if there are AT-Guns or JPIVs with their own scouting support around.



In the Veterancy guide at this side there is stated a 30% sight increase at Vet3. The guide was last updated at 3th of march in 2021. I can't find a note at the changelog after that date where it got removed, but in the actual game a Vet3 Greyhound has 55 sight range from front of vehicle just as a Vet1 one.

Having 30% sight bonus at Vet3 would make M8 useful in late game actually if you can keep it alive long enough. Finally recon support would have a vehicle that would live up to its name. With about 55 sight I rather use Vet1 55 sight range pathfinders which can cloak on top. A lot more sneaky and durable.


Well that's very strange, odd this missed from the notes? I've gotten to vet III several times and something didn't seem right with the sight range at vet III, thought it was just my imagination. (That and fighting fanatical blobbers taking my attention). Yes I got my data from the vet guide and Serealia. Both appear to be wrong somehow. I went through several years of patch notes but couldn't find anything either. I can see that a 78 sight range vehicle recon might be too much, but 55 is very hard to work with even in the best of situations.

I suppose it's too late now to get it changed, esp with how little recon company/Greyhound gets used and the problems involving regular Paths as is. Would be a very useful scouting unit.

2 Nov 2021, 15:12 PM
#20
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 281

Im baffled why every 2 months someone wants to rework Recon Support while being a perfectly viable commander (atleast in 1v1)

4th most played commander in the top200 and 5th overall... seems like the perfect middle ground. Just accept that it doesnt fit your play style or game mode and move on
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