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Fans have been playing Company of Heroes 3 for years

14 Jul 2021, 17:39 PM
#21
avatar of Leodot

Posts: 254

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 16:12 PMPip


The actual "top players", i.e those that win tournaments, are indeed the people who should be listened to. They actually understand the game, and as Bud says: Lelic mis-stepped by NOT listening to good players for the longest time.


I agree, but what I am missing is that 4v4 is the most played setup, and tournaments are only 1v1.
This I feel is a pitty because 4v4 is huge! Ofcourse there are severe issues in moderation of 4v4 but I think this is the only future setup if not even larger like 5v5 or 6v6.

Currently the games are more team games or MP games than 2006. This should be in consideration of the next COH.

Despite, there is a strong community for singleplayer, modders, and 1v1 tournaments but laggs of big events like 4v4. If this setup helps to mobelize more gamer to play COH3 in the end I am happy with it.

So, I think there is huge potential but als a huge ladder to climb and 1 year isn't much time!

14 Jul 2021, 18:13 PM
#22
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 15:56 PMBudwise


Yea that didn't happen. The first years of COH2 Relic didn't like what the top players had to say so we were pretty much ignored and silenced. That's why 90% of top players from COH1 did not move to COH2 for very long, the downgrade in mechanics and initial pay2win strategy was too much.

Relic didn't actually start listening until years after release when they realized they had F'd up. Even then the cycling of "experts" in their group was alarming. They'd bring in a new group for "private balancing" and if they didn't agree with the devs eventually they'd be phased out and a new group of "experts" brought in. Span this over years and hundreds of players. Most top players ran out of fucks to give for COH2 after enough of that.

Lets hope lessons were learned on both sides.


Amen.

If anything as well, i hope they don't burn out content creators and they improve tools in order to make those thing easier (hello rewind feature).
Pip
14 Jul 2021, 18:36 PM
#23
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1579

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 17:39 PMLeodot


I agree, but what I am missing is that 4v4 is the most played setup, and tournaments are only 1v1.
This I feel is a pitty because 4v4 is huge! Ofcourse there are severe issues in moderation of 4v4 but I think this is the only future setup if not even larger like 5v5 or 6v6.

Currently the games are more team games or MP games than 2006. This should be in consideration of the next COH.

Despite, there is a strong community for singleplayer, modders, and 1v1 tournaments but laggs of big events like 4v4. If this setup helps to mobelize more gamer to play COH3 in the end I am happy with it.

So, I think there is huge potential but als a huge ladder to climb and 1 year isn't much time!



Ideally in CoH3 larger gamemodes will have separate balancing done to them in some fashion. That's really the best way to help large modes shine, as you simply can't expect 1v1s and 4v4s to perform the same way.

CoH2's 4v4 mode simply isnt suited to "tournament" level play due to systemic issues with critical mass, and certain units' efficiency.
14 Jul 2021, 19:11 PM
#24
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17581 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 18:36 PMPip


Ideally in CoH3 larger gamemodes will have separate balancing done to them in some fashion. That's really the best way to help large modes shine, as you simply can't expect 1v1s and 4v4s to perform the same way.

CoH2's 4v4 mode simply isnt suited to "tournament" level play due to systemic issues with critical mass, and certain units' efficiency.

I never understood why they didn't translated DoW2 multiplayer eco into CoH2, it clearly proved a functional feature and helped tremendously with balancing and game pace.
Pip
14 Jul 2021, 19:12 PM
#25
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1579

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 19:11 PMKatitof

I never understood why they didn't translated DoW2 multiplayer eco into CoH2, it clearly proved a functional feature and helped tremendously with balancing and game pace.


How did it work in DoW2? It's been years since I played that.
A_E
14 Jul 2021, 19:36 PM
#26
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2402 | Subs: 6

Speaking for the original 9 person council, it was all killer no filler dream team. A nice mix from the CoH2/1 community imo, great bunch.

We helped give advice that I feel represented the best hopes and dreams of the community at a vital stage (concept phase), and were for the most part listened to.

I do feel that from there it got a little bit bigger and possibly not as engaging from my own personal perspective at times, but I personally think to have a 70 person 'council' is the worst of both worlds. It's too big to be quality over quantity and engaging, but too small to get meta data that is authoritative.

So open pre-alpha is going to be a lot more useful for them I think.
14 Jul 2021, 19:56 PM
#27
avatar of le12ro

Posts: 19

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 19:36 PMA_E
Speaking for the original 9 person council, it was all killer no filler dream team. A nice mix from the CoH2/1 community imo, great bunch.

We helped give advice that I feel represented the best hopes and dreams of the community at a vital stage (concept phase), and were for the most part listened to.

I do feel that from there it got a little bit bigger and possibly not as engaging from my own personal perspective at times, but I personally think to have a 70 person 'council' is the worst of both worlds. It's too big to be quality over quantity and engaging, but too small to get meta data that is authoritative.

So open pre-alpha is going to be a lot more useful for them I think.


Having joined the council later, it was great seeing all these big names already there. Having more people onboard also helped to get a few Coh3 things neatly and quickly organised!
14 Jul 2021, 20:11 PM
#28
avatar of WhiteFlash
Senior Mapmaker Badge
Benefactor 119

Posts: 1273 | Subs: 1

14 Jul 2021, 20:24 PM
#29
avatar of Budwise
Admin Red  Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2074 | Subs: 2

I was not invited at any point


14 Jul 2021, 21:24 PM
#30
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17581 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 19:12 PMPip


How did it work in DoW2? It's been years since I played that.

There were more resource points on larger maps, but they also gave less resources in return in 2v2 and even less in 3v3, cost to upgrade power relays remained the same across them, they just gave less in return as there were more points to upgrade, it effectively diminished resource creep in team games and kept the pacing similar with all 3 modes.
14 Jul 2021, 21:27 PM
#31
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 667 | Subs: 1



I don't know, the art style looks very much like COH1. The way flags are designed. Vehicles. Units. Territories etc.


Wow you've gone really in depth with your analysis I see. Just like I anticipated. Art style I don't know about. I don't see the CoH1 similarities personally but I can grant it. The rest is nonsense. Territories are a mix of CoH 1 and CoH 2 and there has always been an overwhelming consensus that the CoH1 Ressources are superior. "Flags" I don't even know what that means.

"Vehicles. Units." - Damn I can't argue with that. Clearly CoH3 is a CoH1 remake.
14 Jul 2021, 22:10 PM
#32
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 926

It is more than that, bigger squads, the base building style, possible zombie squads, the tech tree (at least the american one) with BAR being a global upgrade and many other things.

also, infantry and vehicles behave very similar to coh1.
15 Jul 2021, 00:37 AM
#33
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2568 | Subs: 4

15 Jul 2021, 00:40 AM
#34
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1522 | Subs: 2

I was not invited at any point

"Oh you are a mapper right so you can just shut the f&^k up and sit down. And keep making free stuff for us." :jk:

Seriously though I would not have ANY usable info on single player. Never played it. Never will. Why would you???

Now when MP hits and there are maps that need looked at, thats when I would possibly have some comments.

But I find it hard to believe you (WF) were not part of the team. You map and have spent time thinking about what should be in COH3? Maybe they read your stuff and didnt need your opinion since they already had all the info?

I find it hysterical that I start my RTS and a few of the things I came up with are in Coh3 :luvCarrot: Maybe I should have been on the team???
15 Jul 2021, 02:04 AM
#35
avatar of LooniestRumble

Posts: 40

With the Steam description it would appear the Italian maps, being cities will play a lor more like CoH1 with focus on infantry play, while the Africa ones, being more open, wil focus more on tank play like CoH2.

Besides that, the lack of red cover besides a small river in the skirmish map, would seem like a more competitive focus. I mean, not even a single out of control even just for aesthetics. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole abandon and main gun crit system was removed instead of reworked.

Now, is just a pre-alpha and maybe this systems are too complex to be fully implemented yet, but I don't hold my candle for them.
15 Jul 2021, 03:59 AM
#36
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1777 | Subs: 2

I was not invited at any point


I thought with you being so vocal about the future installment and supporting the game with content would be an ideal candidate, shocking.

Im curious who are the so called vcoh community at this time and day?

I would love to help out with mp maps, seeing how much the maps have evolved in COH3, the worldbuilder must've had a pretty significant upgrade. Very excited about getting back to creating maps. :clap:

15 Jul 2021, 04:12 AM
#37
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1777 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2021, 15:56 PMBudwise


Yea that didn't happen. The first years of COH2 Relic didn't like what the top players had to say so we were pretty much ignored and silenced. That's why 90% of top players from COH1 did not move to COH2 for very long, the downgrade in mechanics and initial pay2win strategy was too much.

Relic didn't actually start listening until years after release when they realized they had F'd up. Even then the cycling of "experts" in their group was alarming. They'd bring in a new group for "private balancing" and if they didn't agree with the devs eventually they'd be phased out and a new group of "experts" brought in. Span this over years and hundreds of players. Most top players ran out of fucks to give for COH2 after enough of that.

Lets hope lessons were learned on both sides.


That is a painful memory indeed, seeing how the core community was torn appart, so many great people left. I see Relic finally understanding the value behind its core community, faith is restoring. Yay!
15 Jul 2021, 05:36 AM
#38
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1716

there are things i don't agree with the core players.

such as random plane crash does almost zero damages now.
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