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USF Airborne Commander Revamp

21 Mar 2021, 06:14 AM
#1
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3040

Would like to make a thread on this since I haven't seen anyone else talking about it much and wanted to get some discussion going on it.

I think airborne is definitely one of the more lackluster commanders in the game right now. 4/5 of its abilities are call-in units and 2/5 of its abilities are literally stock USF units that don't come at much of a cost discount (they're actually arguably more expensive with the muni cost and cost of crewing the weapons). Given this, the commander is just never going to be a strong pick when compared to almost anything else. It doesn't add anything USF desperately needs besides a good elite infantry unit, which arguably isn't quite as useful as, say, a garrison counter, rocket artillery, a heavy tank (even though pershing is kinda bad/off-meta atm), or an ultralight like the WC51. There's just no good reason to pick it except thompson paras. Even the airborne company pathfinders are just worse than their recon support counterparts since they have an extra sniper rifle (not a good thing at under 30m) and no arty. P47s are atrocious and there's not much to say on that front.

As for changes:

Make pathfinders or pathfinder beacons able to call in the .50 cal and AT gun instead of having them be commander abilities (would have to be CP locked at 2/3 CP respectively for balance ofc, or maybe locked behind full officer tech or double officers). This would make airborne pathfinders stack up a little better against recon support and give the commander an overall buff.

One of the extra slots could be used for an OKW luftwaffe commander-style smoke drop that (unlike luftwaffe) gives no vision, since USF already has nondoc recon and honestly I think the smoke drop also having recon is kind of OP.

The other slot could be used for the P47 gun run that already exists in tactical support company. Little throwback to vCoh airborne company and I don't think anyone thinks that ability is particularly OP or anything.

Do something to P47 rocket loiter to make it less dogshit. Make it more consistent/accurate but weaker, make it not get instantly shot down by pintle 42s on the tanks it's supposed to counter, decrease the price, or any combination of those. Just make it actually useful or change it to a single rocket pass a la Soviet airborne commander. P47 loiter is not worth its price point in its current version.

Alternatively, remove P47 rocket run and change it to a bomb drop identical to IL2 bomb drop, that way you have a howitzer/pak43 counter. Especially with the removal of IL2 bombs from mechanized support, this would make it so that picking airborne in team games isn't throwing anymore. I think this is the better/more well-rounded solution because loiters are dumb and rocket strafe is hard to pull off without a T34 to ram, so it wouldn't fit as well in USF IMO.

That gives airborne company elite infantry that you can optionally use to crew stock team weapons which would no longer take up 40% of the slots in the commander anymore and instead has access to a few airpower options like you would imagine an airborne-themed company would have. Hopefully that balances out not having any doctrinal vehicles.
21 Mar 2021, 11:48 AM
#2
avatar of Olekman
Modmaker Badge

Posts: 207

I think that reverting the munitions cost from HMG and ATG paradrops would be a good start. It kind of unbalances the munition balance of the commander.

However, I disagree that having 4 call-in units is a bad. Since forever, Pathfinders are good to have, but not must have in your build order. HMG and ATG paradrops were never meant to be used in tandem - usually you only get one or the other, to fill the respective gap caused by teching. Paratroopers are the heavy infantry that USF lack and they are a munition sink with their upgrades and grenades.

Rocket Loiter kind of got the short end of the stick. After you had all of your infantry upgraded, it used to be a great late-game munition sink, doing some damage and denying a wide area from enemy tanks. About 2 years ago, its damage got lowered and AA is more reliable than it was back then. It could use a small refurbish.
21 Mar 2021, 12:13 PM
#3
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 1100

One can have a munitions para drop like in the campaign. Change p47 rocket to tactical bombing strike is also solid. P47 rocket can be improved and move to tactical support as a stand alone or just bundled with gun run to make something like ukf strafing support.

So it will look somewhat like:
0cp: Pathfinders with support weapons drop on beacon.
3cp: Para
3cp: Smoke drop.
4cp: Muni drop.
10cp: Bomb strike.
21 Mar 2021, 12:24 PM
#4
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3505 | Subs: 3

>I think airborne is definitely one of the more lackluster commanders in the game right now.
>Given this, the commander is just never going to be a strong pick when compared to almost anything else.
> There's just no good reason to pick it except thompson paras.
>P47s are atrocious and there's not much to say on that front.

WTF am I reading? Airbourne is absolutely a high level meta doctrine and it has been for a long time. The commander is probably the strongest pick at the moment, giving you LMG Paratroopers and a support weapon your officer tier lacks, as well as a lategame loiter.

Speaking of P47s, they are 100% exactly the same as the Ostheer JU87 AT strafe. No difference whatsoever.

If anything, Pathfinder beacons should be looked at, they're way too cheesy. They should cost manpower at the very least or be limited to 1 on the field.
21 Mar 2021, 12:39 PM
#5
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

thompson paras? kekw
21 Mar 2021, 12:44 PM
#6
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12567 | Subs: 1

There difference between Stuka loiter and P47 loiter.
21 Mar 2021, 12:46 PM
#7
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3505 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Mar 2021, 12:39 PMBaba
thompson paras? kekw


They can be pretty good on some maps in 1v1. 2v2 probably too open. I guess maybe Fields, Elst or castle side Eindhoven could work.
21 Mar 2021, 12:49 PM
#8
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600



They can be pretty good on some maps in 1v1. 2v2 probably too open. I guess maybe Fields, Elst or castle side Eindhoven could work.


imagine saying thompson paras is the only good thing about Airborne in terms of infantry

"There's just no good reason to pick it except thompson paras"



21 Mar 2021, 16:30 PM
#9
avatar of TheObersoldatenThatC

Posts: 62

I mean when I use this doctrine I either crew the paradropped team weapons with paratroopers so they can self reinforce or with PF so 50 cal can auto self spot, bc stock crew weapons have higher received accuracy.
21 Mar 2021, 23:38 PM
#10
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3040



They can be pretty good on some maps in 1v1. 2v2 probably too open. I guess maybe Fields, Elst or castle side Eindhoven could work.

Personally, I like thompson paras. Really really high DPS and they're good in conjunction with an HMG and they're excellent at wiping retreating squads if you can get a good tac assault off. LMG paras are easier to use and probably usually more useful though.

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Mar 2021, 12:49 PMBaba


imagine saying thompson paras is the only good thing about Airborne in terms of infantry

"There's just no good reason to pick it except thompson paras"




Lemme break this one down for you.

Thompson paras are useful. Doesn't mean they're better than LMG paras.

Thompson paras are only in airborne. LMG paras are in recon support as well.

Airborne pathfinders are worse than recon support pathfinders.

2 of the other slots in airborne are stock USF team weapons.

P47s are garbage and therefore irrelevant.

Therefore the only useful thing airborne really brings to the table that isn't either in stock USF or other commanders is thompson paras.
22 Mar 2021, 00:14 AM
#11
avatar of NorthWeapon
Donator 11

Posts: 588

Why change just for the sake of changing?? Airborne is fine how it is.

Its a common game design hiccup; game developers play their game so much till they want to change it cuz they get bored.

Just because you are bored of the same old thing doesn't mean new players have the same experience.

So don't change airborne just for the sake of changing it. It's fine. Maybe look at Armor company, that's a rarely used commander. Or Heavy Cavalry
22 Mar 2021, 04:01 AM
#12
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449


Or Heavy Cavalry

What's wrong with Heavy Cavalry?
22 Mar 2021, 05:10 AM
#13
avatar of C3 TOOTH

Posts: 172

Drop HMG & ATgun seems like weak because they're stock.
1/ It fulfill the old USF tech design (where you can only go for AI or AT in mid game)
2/ It can emergency dropped anywhere in the map. Have a beacon for Paras to arm weaponteam and reinforce. You already have a good flanking force.

I dont think dropped HMG & ATgun should be merged with Pathfinder to create 2 more slots. Though I agree 2 slots for each HMG & ATgun isnt worth. But they should cost at least a slot.

Merge both into a single slot "Weaponteam drop" unlocked at 3CP. Beacon from Pathfinder can callin to drop either one of them onto the Beacon.
Another slot can be used for another Air strike.
22 Mar 2021, 08:28 AM
#14
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3040

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Mar 2021, 04:01 AMSpoof

What's wrong with Heavy Cavalry?

Pershing lol
22 Mar 2021, 09:51 AM
#16
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 493

Regular pathfinders work better when combined with other squads and have half the cooldown of IR pathfinders, can be quite strong early game with a cooperative teammate.

You can drop mg or at, which let's you skip one of the officers, saving some fuel.

Paratroopers don't come bunled with pack, so you may have more than 1-2, with thompsons they have the highest close range dps and still decent at medium range, aaand, unlike support paras, they have timed demo charges vs static defenses.

P47 with the rockets is just scary, it may not be as effective as ju87, but defnitely takes the attention of the opponent. These are the times when you can wipe a squad with grenades on an another part of the map.

Overall I say Airborne is in a good spot.
22 Mar 2021, 10:18 AM
#17
avatar of Tygrys

Posts: 103



l2p


Absolutely love this "argument".
22 Mar 2021, 10:58 AM
#18
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3307 | Subs: 1

Airborn is probably fine in 1vs1 but lack essential tools on teamgame:

1. Lack of late game abilities. The rocket loitering is too situational while being too expensive at the same time and offset by the high munition sink Drops and Para are. There are plenty of loitering in many commanders and many are not considered as ultimate some even exist on doctrine with heavy tanks.
Even cluster bomb from Recon is definitively more useful as it force move infantry from its area and also disable tanks cautch below for a moment.

2. Paratroops are ok but come too late in a game meta where Elite infantry have been made so easily availble. Here again it is specialy true on team game where CP have much more impact. Instead of CP3 they could be tied to T1/T2 platoon post for a better availability.

3. Weapon drop are questionable at the moment when you can easily back tech to get them and individually they don't worth 1 slot. This last point is probably the biggest offender.

4. Lack of indirect fire abilities. Since the balance team kindly nerf both late game stock indirect fire units USF have, it has definitively nerfed any commander relying on them on team game including airborn.


At least 1 of the Weapon drop should be refurbish into something more useful.

22 Mar 2021, 12:07 PM
#19
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17581 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Mar 2021, 10:18 AMTygrys


Absolutely love this "argument".

Tbh, around here, in 97% of arguments it is the most accurate one.
22 Mar 2021, 12:10 PM
#20
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3505 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Mar 2021, 10:58 AMEsxile
Instead of CP3 they could be tied to T1/T2 platoon post for a better availability.


No chance in hell. Paras are bordeline broken and you want USF to have the equivalent of Obers at the 5min mark?

Fuck no


So don't change airborne just for the sake of changing it. It's fine. Maybe look at Armor company, that's a rarely used commander. Or Heavy Cavalry


Or Recon which needs 1200munis to be fully utilized.
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