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Upcoming Comander Update - Wishes

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26 Feb 2021, 16:11 PM
#101
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3108 | Subs: 7

Please stay on topic. No endless discussions about suggestions and single units. The aim is to get an easy overview of what the community wants to be changed, not about the exact detailed design of single units.


Single doctrinal unit/ability adjustments are part of the upcoming commander patch.
Those discussions should not be moderated. Determining which individual units/abilities need attention is just as important as global commander rework suggestions.
26 Feb 2021, 16:49 PM
#102
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 758 | Subs: 1



Single doctrinal unit/ability adjustments are part of the upcoming commander patch.
Those discussions should not be moderated. Determining which individual units/abilities need attention is just as important as global commander rework suggestions.


You honestly should provide more info on what you are planning to do over-all and what are the limits. You've said no swapping\new units\crazy but its a no-brainer tbh.

But what about amount of changes? Number of commanders which can be affected and so on. What is the actual limit balance team\relic has.

Is the commander patch will be focus on fixing OP commanders\UP abilities or pottentualy almost everything may be changed if its a minor changes.
26 Feb 2021, 17:08 PM
#103
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3090 | Subs: 2

Please stay on topic. No endless discussions about suggestions and single units. The aim is to get an easy overview of what the community wants to be changed, not about the exact detailed design of single units.

For these open specific threads.


I will have to agree with Sander here, you seem to be over stepping your boundary.

Perhaps you're too eager to flex your moderator muscles or something but I don't see why Pip's comment was moderated when I do believe, as Sander said, we were staying on topic of commander related change discussions.
26 Feb 2021, 17:18 PM
#104
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2386 | Subs: 2



Single doctrinal unit/ability adjustments are part of the upcoming commander patch.
Those discussions should not be moderated. Determining which individual units/abilities need attention is just as important as global commander rework suggestions.

Those fit better into a more specialized and focused "OKW/OST/XYZ Commander rework" thread. Otherwise we'd potentially have multiple independent discussions about units/abilities across different factions which makes it horribly hard to follow. These discussions then tend to provide almost no benefit.

My aim with this thread was to give people here on the site an opportunity to voice their wishes in the hopes that you and the others on the balance team see if it aligns with what is currently planned. Which - apparently - seems to work to a certain extend. Yes, it will get outdated rather quickly, but that is actually intended: Get a quick and concise overview of WHAT the players want. The exact implementation will be up for changes anyway.

As GachiGasm said, it would be great if at some point we could get an idea of what we can expect from the patch. The last patch that focused on commanders got us new ones (won't be the case this time) and 2 reworks per faction. What is the planned scope at the moment? Are potentially all commanders up for debate? Or is it already planned if there will be a limit at some point? You guys obviously also have a life so if some things just eat to much time, everyone can understand if they will be neglected. But some indication of what is (currently) the scope would be nice, even if it will change later down the line.

It would also make sense to somewhat guide the community discussion. If we already know now that the resources are vastly limited, discussion should focus more around the most glaring issues and the most promising benefits and less on if a certain ability/unit should get a minor price buff/nerf or similars. If however it is at least momentarily planned to include such changes as well, then they should obviously be included in the discussion.
But starting the "big" discussion makes more sense when we everyone goes in with the right expectations. It would not only reduce salt and frustration by the community, but probably also help you guys to better scan for feedback and ideas.
26 Feb 2021, 17:40 PM
#105
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2386 | Subs: 2


I will have to agree with Sander here, you seem to be over stepping your boundary.

Perhaps you're too eager to flex your moderator muscles or something but I don't see why Pip's comment was moderated when I do believe, as Sander said, we were staying on topic of commander related change discussions.

I have stated everything in the post above and in the opening post already, however the discussion in question was a half pager (and growing) about one single unit in one single doctrine.
And as I said, these discussions should be taken into a separate thread specifically tailored towards faction commanders or even the specific commander or the specific unit/ability. With the amount of commanders and units that players want to see tweaked and reworked, we'll end up with a big clusterfuck of parallel discussions.
26 Feb 2021, 17:49 PM
#106
avatar of Olekman
Modmaker Badge

Posts: 207



Just quoting you to say that your OKW desperate measures doctrine is awesome and has an epic theme to it.


Thanks, I really appreciate it! While it's a small mod that replaces only one existing commander, I'm glad when people play it and like it. :)

Now, going back to reimplementation of Fear Propaganda Artillery, here's a mod:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2408495214

In the end I went with something slightly different, because I thought that having the debuff go "slowdown -> suppression -> forced retreat" is a bit meh, especially since the first two are ignored by AT guns. What I implemented is stacking x0.9 movement speed and x0.9 weapon accuracy. That works with AT guns too and is less oppressive than previous debuffs. Squads will retreat at 3 stacks of the debuff. Debuffs are removed when squads retreat.

I wonder whether the forced retreat could be ditched altogether, as stacking movement speed and accuracy penalties will essentially fill the same role (assuming there are units around to exploit that). There aren't many AoE debuffs in the game right now (whether White Phosphorous abilities are one or not is up for debate) and propaganda making enemy units fight worse is rather thematic, I think.
26 Feb 2021, 18:09 PM
#107
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 758 | Subs: 1

Here is my suggestion about relief\rapid. While I understand that some ppl might love to see this abilities just being remade, I personally think they have to go. So here is what I think.

Soviets

Soviet reserve Army


Cons support tactic


Ostheer

Lighting War


Festung support
26 Feb 2021, 18:43 PM
#108
avatar of Kronosaur0s

Posts: 1677

Here is my suggestion about relief\rapid. While I understand that some ppl might love to see this abilities just being remade, I personally think they have to go. So here is what I think.

Soviets

Soviet reserve Army


Cons support tactic


Ostheer

Lighting War


Festung support


Those changes are excellent, man I really wish those commanders were this way than they are now!
26 Feb 2021, 18:52 PM
#109
avatar of Olekman
Modmaker Badge

Posts: 207

Here is my suggestion about relief\rapid. While I understand that some ppl might love to see this abilities just being remade, I personally think they have to go. So here is what I think.

Soviets

Soviet reserve Army


Cons support tactic


Ostheer

Lighting War


Festung support


I'm still a firm believer that Rapid Conscription and Relief Infantry can be reworked and shouldn't be outright removed from the game (though they can be replaced in some commanders if need be). Relief Infantry is currently in a worse position design-wise - Conscripts you get from RC you can at least fully merge into your depleted squads if you want to save Population.
26 Feb 2021, 23:46 PM
#110
avatar of DerKuhlmann

Posts: 427

They should just get buffed, they worked before they were nerfed
27 Feb 2021, 05:24 AM
#111
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1743 | Subs: 2

Could we have a sniper for OKW and USF as a unit in one of the commanders? The model could just be taken from a pathfinder and jaeger and given same or similar stats like the soviet counterpart.
27 Feb 2021, 07:07 AM
#112
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1709

stuka dive bomb is gone now?

i suggest put it back into hotwizer commander
same with il2 bomb run, put it into hotwizer commander.
fits the theme and easier to counter by dropping the bomb

VSL nerf is too hard.
I suggest replace storms with command p4 at higher cp of course. It gives vsl back the durablity with added micro of a p4

VSL is too weak in 2v2 and team games now.
i believe allies infantry equivlant commanders have support of call in tanks or simply better infantry.
27 Feb 2021, 07:41 AM
#113
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1179 | Subs: 1

So, i’ve never really been happy with conscript support tactics as a commander. I would make the following changes to make the doctrine more unique whilst also keeping with its theme:

1) Replace kv1 with the commissar squad from NKVD disruption tactics. The commissar is a very unique unit that adds new capabilities to infantry it supports, perfect for a doctrine based around conscripts.

2) Replace conscript repair kits with conscript PTRS package from AT tactics. Having PPSHs and PTRS upgrades available in one doctrine will provide soviets with a brand new type of gameplay opportunity. It also keeps with the doctrine’s theme.

3) Replace incendiary strike with a new offmap, Grid Bombardment. Multiple ml20 shells drop over a very wide radius. (similar area to OKW’s assault artillery). This ability represents soviet ddoctrine to mass artillery before a breakthrough, and also finally gives Soviets an artillery ability.

4) Rework rapid conscription. Rapid conscription is currently a dumb ability, requiring a player to pay munitions and incentivize taking losses.

New rapid conscription will be a timed ability for a to be determined munitions cost, which instead reduces conscript replenishment time to that of Ostruppen, and decreases replenishment cost to a lower manpower cost.

The idea behind the rework is to create a unique global ability that keeps with the ability’s flavor, while allowing a new type of forward reinforcing gameplay. Instead of a straight stat buff of other globals.


What do you guys think? Im sure many of these are quite rough, particularly the rapid conscription rework, but i think changes such as these will give this doctrine a more unique play-style, not available to the soviets elsewise.

27 Feb 2021, 10:31 AM
#114
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 834 | Subs: 1

Please keep an eye on the Assgren changes:
Moving the sprint beyond battle Phase 1 could ruin this unit.
Maybe it would be worth considering to increase the Munition price for Sprint instead of delaying the ability for the first minutes.
27 Feb 2021, 14:32 PM
#115
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Feb 2021, 07:07 AMmrgame2
stuka dive bomb is gone now?

i suggest put it back into hotwizer commander
same with il2 bomb run, put it into hotwizer commander.


Do you realise there are already 2 SU commanders (Terror and Soviet Combined from 6 with 152mm, plus one with PTAB) and 1 OH commander (Storm from 4 with LeFH, plus one with light artillery)
28 Feb 2021, 00:00 AM
#116
avatar of DerKuhlmann

Posts: 427

I´ve been thinking about partisans.

What if we gave them stolen bundle nades?
28 Feb 2021, 03:15 AM
#117
avatar of frustynumber

Posts: 5

PPSHs are underwhelming and often a downgrade on open maps. Replacing them with SVTs would go a long way towards making some of the more underwhelming commanders viable.
MMX
28 Feb 2021, 04:13 AM
#118
avatar of MMX

Posts: 830 | Subs: 1

PPSHs are underwhelming and often a downgrade on open maps. Replacing them with SVTs would go a long way towards making some of the more underwhelming commanders viable.


while that is true, i think the real issue with the ppsh package is that mobilized reserves is almost always the better choice. the only advantage over 7 man cons is that it is available a bit earlier, but now that this timing window got narrowed even further, there's just no reason to pick ppshs anymore.

maybe a slight buff to survivability might be all that is needed to make ppsh cons a viable alternative once more. their dps at close range is still more than adequate after all, just getting there could be made a little less punishing (e.g. by 5 - 10% lower RA). that may not be enough to make them competitive on open maps, but it's ok for the upgrade to remain somewhat situational... I wish more commander abilities were about providing options instead of offering flat-out superior solutions.

28 Feb 2021, 08:00 AM
#119
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12186 | Subs: 1

PPSHs are underwhelming and often a downgrade on open maps. Replacing them with SVTs would go a long way towards making some of the more underwhelming commanders viable.

That solution has some issues with the current design:
It creates more overlap between conscripts and Penals
It creates further power creep
28 Feb 2021, 09:06 AM
#120
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17536 | Subs: 8

I´ve been thinking about partisans.

What if we gave them stolen bundle nades?

They do have guards nades, which is adequate.
I'd rather have their vet improved or something given to make them something more then ninja capper and mine layer after initial call-in.
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