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8 Jan 2021, 10:21 AM
#521
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515



the doctrine is called 'german infantry'
if the vsl infantry cant even beat stock enemy units, what is the compensation?



I propose a new discussion thread. Should Heavy Cavalry commander have big fat horses being ridden by fat rifleman with elite bazookas?
8 Jan 2021, 10:22 AM
#522
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8



thats correct.

the doctrine is called 'german infantry'
if the vsl infantry cant even beat stock enemy units, what is the compensation?

after patch, why not rename to 'german infantry with some stamps and fireworks'

Live vsl barely hold out against allies elites, you need that first strike to do well.

Let me present you a soviet partisan doctrine.

Should we buff partisans to beat stock axis infantry based on your logic here?

Much cheaper unit with half the muni cost in upgrades is still much cheaper unit with half the muni cost in upgrades.
Upgrade provides additional durability at the cost of firepower, its not Hitlerium Ubermensch injection despite this being the case on life, because *drumroll* ITS OVERPOWERED ATM.
8 Jan 2021, 10:25 AM
#523
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

m8 that's a 20% ish decrease in both close max range.


Only at point blank range, around range 10 it starts evening out. Fights below that range are rare. As for max range, most of the DPS there comes from the Kar 98Ks anyway so there's barely a difference (from 11.8 to 11.5).
8 Jan 2021, 10:31 AM
#524
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794



I propose a new discussion thread. Should Heavy Cavalry commander have big fat horses being ridden by fat rifleman with elite bazookas?


i can think of a compensation to german infantry, change the HT to Tiger!
8 Jan 2021, 10:32 AM
#525
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8



i can think of a compensation to german infantry, change the HT to Tiger!

I've got better one.
Change all 5 abilities into tiger.
8 Jan 2021, 10:33 AM
#526
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

need a recap, which part of german infantry is OP?

is it too cheap for vsl?
too early for vsl upgrade?
easily control the early-mid game, zoning out allies play?
vsl gren rekt bars rifles and 7man cons and bren IS?
vsl gren rekt allies call-in infantry? shocks, guards, rangers, commandos? ppsh smg?

8 Jan 2021, 10:34 AM
#527
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17889 | Subs: 8

need a recap, which part of german infantry is OP?

The one that was nerfed in the patch.
Go read the notes.
8 Jan 2021, 10:37 AM
#528
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

which part of the upgrade is too potent? who is it potent against? what is considered potent and not?
when does it becomes too potent and when does it falls behind?

besides, isnt a commander choice and resources paid to upgrade suppose to work well?

im just trying to rationalise the reason it got double nerf.

i cant with brumbar, so im trying with vsl.
8 Jan 2021, 10:42 AM
#529
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794


I've got better one.
Change all 5 abilities into tiger.


why do you need 5 tigers?

imo a tiger in german infantry would put it on similar footing to heavy cav plays.

it makes more sense now to nerf the vsl grens, since it weakens the mid game, but at least the tiger will help in late game 2v2.
MMX
8 Jan 2021, 11:19 AM
#530
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1



I propose a new discussion thread. Should Heavy Cavalry commander have big fat horses being ridden by fat rifleman with elite bazookas?


ok, NOW we're talking!
8 Jan 2021, 12:31 PM
#531
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289



thats correct.

the doctrine is called 'german infantry'
if the vsl infantry cant even beat stock enemy units, what is the compensation?

after patch, why not rename to 'german infantry with some stamps and fireworks'

Live vsl barely hold out against allies elites, you need that first strike to do well.


Why does a 240 mp squad with a single muni upgrade need to be on par/hold out vs allued elites?

The veteran squad leader comes with a lot of perks and not just survivability. 4 men grens already have good dps, just slapping a 5thm model on their with free med kits and a better gun and rec acc as well i believe is a big buff for just 60 muni it was i believe.

You cant have it all in such a cheap pakkage.
8 Jan 2021, 14:54 PM
#532
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



Now that you looked at extreme values, wipe your tears and take another look at values between range 15 and 30.

M8, just pointing out a fact and asking a logical question. I don't know what promted you to get so pissy.
8 Jan 2021, 14:59 PM
#533
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



Only at point blank range, around range 10 it starts evening out. Fights below that range are rare. As for max range, most of the DPS there comes from the Kar 98Ks anyway so there's barely a difference (from 11.8 to 11.5).

Did you do test to see weather the combat performance is the same(similar) instead of using words????? I'm ok with the changes(not that it's actually relevant) if combat performance remains similar(you know 5-man grens are supposed to be able to stand up to allied elite infantry or not be total pushovers).
8 Jan 2021, 16:28 PM
#534
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Why does a 240 mp squad with a single muni upgrade need to be on par/hold out vs allued elites?

The veteran squad leader comes with a lot of perks and not just survivability. 4 men grens already have good dps, just slapping a 5thm model on their with free med kits and a better gun and rec acc as well i believe is a big buff for just 60 muni it was i believe.

You cant have it all in such a cheap pakkage.

5 men grenadier are 270/60 mu unit not a 240 unit. Received accuracy was removed in preview.
8 Jan 2021, 16:57 PM
#535
avatar of Elaindil

Posts: 97

which part of the upgrade is too potent? who is it potent against? what is considered potent and not?
when does it becomes too potent and when does it falls behind?

besides, isnt a commander choice and resources paid to upgrade suppose to work well?

im just trying to rationalise the reason it got double nerf.

i cant with brumbar, so im trying with vsl.


Read the thread and patchnotes.
8 Jan 2021, 17:52 PM
#536
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

this is video prove about currently brumbar armor are bournced a lot of AT shot.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12-xeh9sS9xXfd-xJa6XBjqsBSCfHgCvm/view?usp=sharing
this video shown brumbar was bourced 3 shot constantly.
If you thing this was a bad luck/RNG. It isn't.In my experience this happened generally.
8 Jan 2021, 17:55 PM
#537
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2021, 16:28 PMVipper

5 men grenadier are 270/60 mu unit not a 240 unit. Received accuracy was removed in preview.


Don't forget about 4 men gren can beat 5-6 men squad that mean as per model they perform better than 6 men squad.

8 Jan 2021, 18:05 PM
#538
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2021, 17:55 PMvgfgff


Don't forget about 4 men gren can beat 5-6 men squad that mean as per model they perform better than 6 men squad.


Not really, it is the lmg that allows them to damage enemy infatry but all that is irrelevant to my point.

My only point is that 5 men grenadier cost is 270/60 and not 240
8 Jan 2021, 23:11 PM
#539
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jan 2021, 18:05 PMVipper

Not really, it is the lmg that allows them to damage enemy infatry but all that is irrelevant to my point.

My only point is that 5 men grenadier cost is 270/60 and not 240


Where does that 30 extra mp come from? Afaik its only muni to upgrade and no buying the 5th model.
9 Jan 2021, 00:02 AM
#540
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3106 | Subs: 2



Where does that 30 extra mp come from? Afaik its only muni to upgrade and no buying the 5th model.

Because you need to buy the fifth model after the upgrade
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