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[Winter Balance Update] OST Feedback

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17 Jan 2021, 09:35 AM
#741
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 09:32 AMmrgame2

you ignore what i brought up

Actually, nothing wrong with that in your case.

As pointed out multiple times, you're acting out of feelings and emotions exclusively, disregarding actual state of balance, because you're too salty about well justified, but a very small nerf.

You don't have any argument, you aren't bringing up any actual problems in case of units you accuse of being op, you can't even justify nerfing them with anything else then "because muh brummbur" and that clearly is not a valid argument.

You complain about dozer sherman and bring video "proof" where it isn't even there ffs.
17 Jan 2021, 09:38 AM
#742
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 09:35 AMKatitof

Actually, nothing wrong with that in your case.

As pointed out multiple times, you're acting out of feelings and emotions exclusively, disregarding actual state of balance, because you're too salty about well justified, but a very small nerf.

You don't have any argument, you aren't bringing up any actual problems in case of units you accuse of being op, you can't even justify nerfing them with anything else then "because muh brummbur" and that clearly is not a valid argument.


small but unjustified nerf without compensation. thats my point.

why look at brumbar only when allies units have 'similar' attributes to cause wehrboo the same problem as brumbar?

i like that some of you are finding fault with the messanger than the message itself. :ph34r:
17 Jan 2021, 09:39 AM
#743
avatar of JPA32

Posts: 178

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 09:32 AMmrgame2

i gone through your post history, and you are abit of allies supporter yourself.


Darn, snuffed me out. Guess the fact I tried to get Grens buffed in this very thread a few days ago gave me away.



17 Jan 2021, 09:45 AM
#744
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 09:38 AMmrgame2


small but unjustified nerf without compensation. thats my point.


There is a reason. You're just too stubborn to accept and cope with it.
Here it is:


why look at brumbar only when allies units have 'similar' attributes to cause wehrboo the same problem as brumbar?

Because they don't.
That's the whole point.
Allies have no extremely overbuffed mini-ISU "guaranteed squad wipe in 2 shots at most, every single time" stock unit.

i like that some of you are finding fault with the messanger than the message itself. :ph34r:

Very ironic to come from someone who just refuses to get the message, because he doesn't like it.
17 Jan 2021, 10:11 AM
#745
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 09:24 AMmrgame2


im talking about brumbar armor nerf which revert to 100% even after the 60td nerf. again, we need to see what compensation of nerfing brumbar, vsl and ostt, critical units.

lets also not talk about panther, 'dive and high durable and AI'. it is a dead horse, and not many think highly of that outside of 4v4 late games. panther works in 2v2 but not OP or even close.



Entire late game nerf for soviets is already quite some compensation for vsl brum and ostr nerfs.

You where comolaining about 60 range high pen td's. I countered with axis have very high armour stock, inlike usf and sov esp. Hence why allied td's need to do their job well.
I also did not say or state panther is op. Just that it operates differently.
17 Jan 2021, 10:13 AM
#746
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 09:45 AMKatitof


There is a reason. You're just too stubborn to accept and cope with it.
Here it is:



Because they don't.
That's the whole point.
Allies have no extremely overbuffed mini-ISU "guaranteed squad wipe in 2 shots at most, every single time" stock unit.


Very ironic to come from someone who just refuses to get the message, because he doesn't like it.


nothing wrong to disagree with patch notes?
what does massed AT fire means? Doesnt the same mean for Kv tanks? If AT is concern, why the nerfs to ATG?

im ok with ATG nerfs, though it will means Ost gets the shortend because of grens are not as good moving in.

brumbar is helpful to clear late games 7m cons behind sandbags, and vetted rifles and is.

i can have patch notes that say

BD sherman is too durable with its speed and accuracy, to reduce moving accruacy to 0.55 from 0.75 once upgraded.

kv8 flames too potent against weapon teams, range reduce to 20 from 30, same with handheld flame thrower.

kv1 rear armor unnecessary high, reduce from 165 to 125.
17 Jan 2021, 12:10 PM
#747
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jan 2021, 10:13 AMmrgame2


nothing wrong to disagree with patch notes?
what does massed AT fire means? Doesnt the same mean for Kv tanks? If AT is concern, why the nerfs to ATG?

im ok with ATG nerfs, though it will means Ost gets the shortend because of grens are not as good moving in.

brumbar is helpful to clear late games 7m cons behind sandbags, and vetted rifles and is.

i can have patch notes that say

BD sherman is too durable with its speed and accuracy, to reduce moving accruacy to 0.55 from 0.75 once upgraded.


kv8 flames too potent against weapon teams, range reduce to 20 from 30, same with handheld flame thrower.

kv1 rear armor unnecessary high, reduce from 165 to 125.


You can't compare KV1/8 to brumbar. Both can't wipe squad in 1-2 shot like brummbar does and they're doc unit.
KV8 took time to burn can't kite like brummbar do.
Brummbar would be fine if they're not stock unit meanwhile OST do have other strong anti AI tank like ostwind.
churchill are arrived later than panther. and churchil can't fight panther alone and they're suck as AI roles.
About flames .Do you forgot about Flame HT that have 2x flames thrower , longer range than KV-8.and They're early stock unit.

Why OST have heavy AI tank that need 5-6 shot to kill and bounced a lot of AT shot? a
Do you know 1 panther can kill 2x bd sherman?

by the way.
The whole point is "IT IS STOCK UNIT" .



17 Jan 2021, 21:04 PM
#748
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I seriously can not believe that a 3% increased chance to pen has been dragged on this long... 3%. 3
18 Jan 2021, 01:50 AM
#749
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

I seriously can not believe that a 3% increased chance to pen has been dragged on this long... 3%. 3


+1

Because it's not about the change itself rather how it hurts them feelings when any nerf is applied to their favourite faction.


Seems people forget about what's the scope of this patch is: STOCK units and tech and META doctrinal abilities.



18 Jan 2021, 02:17 AM
#750
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793

I seriously can not believe that a 3% increased chance to pen has been dragged on this long... 3%. 3


it is more 4% than 3% and it also moves performance downwards across the various AT ranges.

Im pointing out all 3 simultaneous nerfs to Ost AI, is too much without compensation. Brum VSL Ostt.

In new MSL games i watched on yt, most games are won by allies. So much of wehrboo 'strong' meta deserving 3 nerfbats all at once.
18 Jan 2021, 02:45 AM
#751
avatar of Thamor

Posts: 290

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2021, 02:17 AMmrgame2


it is more 4% than 3% and it also moves performance downwards across the various AT ranges.

Im pointing out all 3 simultaneous nerfs to Ost AI, is too much without compensation. Brum VSL Ostt.

In new MSL games i watched on yt, most games are won by allies. So much of wehrboo 'strong' meta deserving 3 nerfbats all at once.


Axis takes the most nerf bats. Allies still supreme on abilities that they have, where axis units are one click ability only units. Most of all I wish some of the abilities on allies would be checked, USF already has mortar & howizer, do they need smoke on rear echelons, or captain as core ability. While axis only have smoke from commander pick or mortar (okw IG). Really think OKW should give smoke grenade to pioneer and remove the concussion grenade.
18 Jan 2021, 19:14 PM
#752
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jan 2021, 02:17 AMmrgame2


it is more 4% than 3% and it also moves performance downwards across the various AT ranges.

Im pointing out all 3 simultaneous nerfs to Ost AI, is too much without compensation. Brum VSL Ostt.

In new MSL games i watched on yt, most games are won by allies. So much of wehrboo 'strong' meta deserving 3 nerfbats all at once.


Reminder it has the "terminator commander" format. People have to gamble on using the strongest strats or saving them up for later and risk getting DQ.

From the games i've seen in yt in AEC/Tightrope channels it's basically a split on who won. There's also the bracket from which you can see the results of all games.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-ptwn9N11mZSocSJcL8xTQFrI8knU86DWoOL7OnCXjo/edit#gid=1184725771

OH: 30/65 = 46.15%
19 Jan 2021, 02:01 AM
#753
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793



Reminder it has the "terminator commander" format. People have to gamble on using the strongest strats or saving them up for later and risk getting DQ.

From the games i've seen in yt in AEC/Tightrope channels it's basically a split on who won. There's also the bracket from which you can see the results of all games.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-ptwn9N11mZSocSJcL8xTQFrI8knU86DWoOL7OnCXjo/edit#gid=1184725771

OH: 30/65 = 46.15%


allies are quite ahead though.

at least we see there is an over reaction to wc2020 with regards to the fastidious nerf bats to ost.

thats what im trying to say. nerf to AI without compensation in lower rank 2v2, random maps automatch, the hurt hits harder. :faint:
19 Jan 2021, 02:59 AM
#754
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 306

Alies is quite ahead ?
answer is no.
UKF is trash vs new OKW, OST. only 3/11 game
USF openning for shock value and Soviet is everything elese.
Okw/Ost is in their good state right now.
19 Jan 2021, 03:45 AM
#755
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793

that is what the faction stats are saying

hopefully we see some AI added back to wehrboo in v6 patch.
hopefully more consideration is given to different game mode and competitive factors.
too much emphasis on wc2020 imo

imo from 2v2 wehrboo, a lot of changes are negative to the faction

just off the head
-loss of early ostt map control
-loss vsl grens cqc head to head blobbing
-weaken brumbar late game durability
-more smoke access
-easier to decrew at
-early ukf engineer to mg/wasp bren to aec
-F1 cromwell
-7 man cons still beating t4 grens in late game
19 Jan 2021, 11:39 AM
#756
avatar of vgfgff

Posts: 177

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jan 2021, 03:45 AMmrgame2
that is what the faction stats are saying

hopefully we see some AI added back to wehrboo in v6 patch.
hopefully more consideration is given to different game mode and competitive factors.
too much emphasis on wc2020 imo

imo from 2v2 wehrboo, a lot of changes are negative to the faction

just off the head
-loss of early ostt map control
-loss vsl grens cqc head to head blobbing
-weaken brumbar late game durability
-more smoke access
-easier to decrew at
-early ukf engineer to mg/wasp bren to aec
-F1 cromwell
-7 man cons still beating t4 grens in late game


Did you ever think about VSL was OP before?.
I'm not fully agree with remove G43 and give volk smg to them.

but currently VSL spam are unbeatable especially when they reached vet 3. their durabilty and damage output was too high.

brumbar are strong like kv2 but It's stock. I need to hear a reason why you think they're fine instead of put KV1/8 argument. many player already give a fact why they're strong but you always pull other factor that didn't relative with brummbar.


VSL are come with SVG. and both getting nerf that fair enough(Cons getting core nerf).
19 Jan 2021, 11:59 AM
#757
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jan 2021, 03:45 AMmrgame2


vsl grens


Section used to have 5 rifle with 16dmg thus can bust model and they got nefted hard out of that so there are no reason for vls to have that capable on evnt a higher lv (as base accuracy is higher thus chance to bust is higher) and if you are going to bring in the doctrinal argument then the compare between bumbar and kv1/105 sherman should stop.

As mentioned before by various pp, the change in dps of the new vls is not too big and they still get the durable of a 5 man squad with vet3 dmg reduction - which is the main point of the upgrade on the fist place, not firepower.
26 Jan 2021, 09:03 AM
#758
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Looking at the commander picks from ML4 is indication that Ostruppen changes are that good.

The commanders with ostruppen saw very little use. The idea should be to reduce their use not remove them from the game.

If their current design does not work redesign them so that the have the durability but not the DPS (for instance target 1 but removing the cover bonuses and replacing the LMG with cover bonuses)

If one wants the Osttruppen underused one should at least look the rest of the commander abilities of these commanders since they do not seem to be good enough.
26 Jan 2021, 12:57 PM
#759
avatar of KahootKing

Posts: 34

Ostheer really getting the short end of this patch huh
26 Jan 2021, 12:59 PM
#760
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

Ostheer really getting the short end of this patch huh

You are basing this on what?
Because most certainly its not patch notes.
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