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[Winter Balance Update] General Discussion

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1 Dec 2020, 05:20 AM
#201
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449

snip

I am not sure what JP4's penetration is, but I am certain it is lower than the Panther's. ISU-152 HE lowered to 60 range means that only the JP4 and PaK 43 can not be outranged by the ISU-152. A simple solution, then, would to be raising the frontal armor of the ISU-152 so it bounces more JP4 shots while leaving Panther shots relatively unaffected. Furthermore, allowing the ISU-152 to quickly toggle AP and HE should be more than enough to compensate for the range reduction.
1 Dec 2020, 08:03 AM
#202
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3600 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Dec 2020, 03:19 AMGrumpy



Lastly, it seems really odd that the ISU is getting nerfed on a patch that is intended for core or META issues. It's not a core unit, and not particularly META given the large number of maps where it's a bad idea. If it's going to be nerfed, it should be done in a patch that focuses on heavies (other than the rear armor nerf which is fine).


You're not the only one wondering about it.
1 Dec 2020, 14:45 PM
#203
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Dec 2020, 08:03 AMEsxile


You're not the only one wondering about it.


If there is any meta soviet unit in 2v2 then SU-152. A nerf is long overdue and should have happened when the heavy tanks were nerfed.

1 Dec 2020, 15:41 PM
#204
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Isu nerf is acceptable. The rear armour was a long time coming and shouldn't really realistically change much if you are supporting your isu properly-even with the reduced range.in regards to the reduced range--this is also a good change. Currently the isu is impossible to stop from wiping squads aside from major misplay by the enemy or a risky all in dive. Even an elefant is unable to realistically counter it. The range reduction allows it to STILL out range almost every axis unit, but eats a bit of buffer space. Adds some risk to the reward without making the isu inert against infantry. Think of a Brummbär with double the range.
1 Dec 2020, 15:44 PM
#205
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

ISU152 nerf should absolutely be accompanied by an Elefant nerf.
1 Dec 2020, 15:48 PM
#206
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 940

ISU152 nerf should absolutely be accompanied by an Elefant nerf.

Any specifics you were thinking? Removal of Spotting scope?
1 Dec 2020, 16:03 PM
#207
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3


Any specifics you were thinking? Removal of Spotting scope?


I'd like to see its range go down to 65 or 60. Scope isn't that relevant imo since most people just keep a vetted 222 for it.
1 Dec 2020, 16:23 PM
#208
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 940



I'd like to see its range go down to 65 or 60. Scope isn't that relevant imo since most people just keep a vetted 222 for it.

Not sure how I feel about an ele range nerf (or inevitably by extension a Jagdtiger range nerf). On the one hand, the ISU HE range is 60 but the AP is still 70 ( for 200 vs 360 pen ISU/Ele) so *Shrugs* The HE range nerf has put it deeper into a dangerous envelope but it couldn't stand up to those heavy TDs before either barring some lottery win RNG.

I had hoped that this HE range nerf would make Ele/Jgdt less of a 'must slot in case of ISU' but yeah I can see the latter two being advantaged even more.
1 Dec 2020, 16:46 PM
#209
avatar of Letzte Bataillon

Posts: 195

Axis superheavy TDs are strictly specialist units and obviously should have an edge over dual-purpose or generalist units in their field. The ISU-152 does the work of both the Sturmpanzer IV and the Elefant.

It is very important that the ISU-152 can inflict significant damage regardless of the opponent's unit composition by changing ammo whereas the equivalent Elefant or Jadgtiger act only as deterrents without armored targets to fight against.


This discussion belongs in the SOV feedback thread.
1 Dec 2020, 17:10 PM
#210
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

It is very important that the ISU-152 can inflict significant damage regardless of the opponent's unit composition by changing ammo whereas the equivalent Elefant or Jadgtiger act only as deterrents without armored targets to fight against.


Nice excuse, except once players use combined arms properly you have to use combined arms back or die. An Elefant which denies the use of armour has already achieved its purpose to the fullest.
1 Dec 2020, 17:16 PM
#211
avatar of marius

Posts: 28


thanks for the support after so many years but there is something that always leaves me in doubt is because there is no sniper with USF this unit is needed to match the other snipers of the other factions, and it works I made a mod and the mod is really needed don't post it because it only added snipers for USF and Oberkommando. the sniper I did with him the rangers unit is more suitable, I also changed the English sniper rifle for the lee enfield.

I know this is not the forum for this suggestion, I like the new balance sheets that they propose, thank you, forgive me for my bad English
1 Dec 2020, 18:41 PM
#212
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



I'd like to see its range go down to 65 or 60. Scope isn't that relevant imo since most people just keep a vetted 222 for it.

Wtf? No.
1 Dec 2020, 21:31 PM
#213
avatar of frustynumber

Posts: 5

I would rather lose the AT shells on the ISU entirely than deal with a range nerf to HE. It's already extremely slow and vulnerable, add in buffed panthers and nerfed SU85s to support it and you spend the whole game repairing it. What is envisioned as counterplay to the Elefants now that ISU, SU85, T34 and Zis are all nerfed?
1 Dec 2020, 22:09 PM
#214
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 940

Does the Command Panther also benefit from the Panther changes? It's got its own dedicated veterancy structure after all. A little concerned the base acc buff was overlooked for it.

Also requesting/hope for a Spec Ops rework in a future commander patch. Thing's almost dead barring some diehards.
1 Dec 2020, 22:28 PM
#215
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515

I would rather lose the AT shells on the ISU entirely than deal with a range nerf to HE. It's already extremely slow and vulnerable, add in buffed panthers and nerfed SU85s to support it and you spend the whole game repairing it. What is envisioned as counterplay to the Elefants now that ISU, SU85, T34 and Zis are all nerfed?


1v1 it's not hard to counter the elefant as it's quite slow and once snared becomes an easy target and the maps offer plenty of flanks.
2v2+ as Soviet: Katyusha barrage around the elefant to retreat combined arms infantry around it and then use either vetted T34 and one SU85 to damage the elefant for the snare. At this point if you do not have enough units to kill the elefant, try to damage it as much as you can to make it useless for a longer period of time (repair). Killing it should be done by SU85 and/or ZiS. Support is welcome by the partner. But agreed, Elefant is a cancer to kill with it's 400 armour. TDs will often bounce.
1 Dec 2020, 23:40 PM
#216
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I would rather lose the AT shells on the ISU entirely than deal with a range nerf to HE. It's already extremely slow and vulnerable, add in buffed panthers and nerfed SU85s to support it and you spend the whole game repairing it. What is envisioned as counterplay to the Elefants now that ISU, SU85, T34 and Zis are all nerfed?

The AT shells are necessary to keep the unit balanced as a unit of that cost being only AI at 70-hell even 60 range would need to be a nightmare. Making it cheaper to componsate simply makes it more replaceable and easier to support. It's only balanced as a package and only precariously at that
2 Dec 2020, 03:02 AM
#217
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4



I'd like to see its range go down to 65 or 60. Scope isn't that relevant imo since most people just keep a vetted 222 for it.


Definitely a bruh moment
2 Dec 2020, 11:46 AM
#218
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1



If there is any meta soviet unit in 2v2 then SU-152. A nerf is long overdue and should have happened when the heavy tanks were nerfed.



+1

ISU is one of the most retarded units in the entire game at the moment.
3 Dec 2020, 03:23 AM
#219
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



I'd like to see its range go down to 65 or 60. Scope isn't that relevant imo since most people just keep a vetted 222 for it.
if so i got a question,

WHY WOULD THEN THE ISU OUTRANGE A DEDICATED HEAVY TD ?

it still keeps 70 range for the AP shells
3 Dec 2020, 05:06 AM
#220
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

if so i got a question,

WHY WOULD THEN THE ISU OUTRANGE A DEDICATED HEAVY TD ?

it still keeps 70 range for the AP shells



???

ISU’s AP shell range would obviously go down to 60 as well.
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