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M3A1 scout car scaling

28 Jul 2020, 06:32 AM
#1
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

Aka the clown car, a great tool (combined with flamer engineers) to get some early game kills, especially on a garrisoned mg squads. But then it pretty much becomes obsolete, I mean one may still attempt to pull off some crazy stunts, like rushing in with at penals to satchel a vehicle, but we don't have many examples of that.

Looking at the other light vehicles all of them have some late game value, like the kübel can map hack, 221 can generate income, 250 ht can reinforce, 222 can AA and map hack, vickers UC can suppress, M20 can lay mines, WC51 can mark target and call in arty, US M3 can reinforce and heal, UK M3 can reinforce and drop guns, etc.

And even if the M3A1 had some good late game ability, possibly locked behind vet, it would be difficult to get there, as it struggles to gain experience by itself. Many of the aforementioned light vehicles would have difficulties too to get veterancy, typically the mg halftracks, but they all get shared vet for their support role. Same should applied to the M3A1 (just as to the EFA engineers; in fact these 3 units are perhaps the only ones in the game that are more about supporting with poor combat abilities, yet don't receive shared vet for it).

So, my proposal: slightly increase vet requirements and add shared veterancy to the M3A1. At vet2 give it an ability, for example button vehicle (same as guards, soft snaring), so that there is a point in keeping it alive for late game.
28 Jul 2020, 08:02 AM
#2
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

The bottun would probably be too strong esp with ptrs penals in the same tier. Needs to be thuroughly tested.

Would it cost the same as the guards version?

Or maybe it is a training upgrade at vet2 for muni. In dow2 for the sentinal in elite mod you need to buy the stomp to be able to counter melee units. This could work for the m3a1 at vet 2 as well for button imo.
28 Jul 2020, 14:14 PM
#3
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

The bottun would probably be too strong esp with ptrs penals in the same tier. Needs to be thuroughly tested.


Yes, needs some testing, I thought since the vehicle would need to face the target for the ability to take effect it wouldn't work while driving by, thus at penals would be less dangerous in this situation.
But any other ability can be considered, I just picked button vehicle, cuz it's not a game changer for soviets, but enough to make the scout car useful in the late game. For example medical supply drops would be definitely a major hit for them.
28 Jul 2020, 14:39 PM
#4
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2933 | Subs: 2

I think OP makes a good point, however I think that it could use a different ability.

Either some timed vision (it's a scout car after all) or some slow suppressive fire ability similar to the volley fire of echolons. Would at least allow it to support flanks against lone capping squads.
28 Jul 2020, 14:56 PM
#5
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2114 | Subs: 2

I think the M3A1 Scout Car should turn into an M3A1 Command Car after the T4 build, and get an aura or a coordinated 120mm mortars strike or something like that.
28 Jul 2020, 15:08 PM
#6
avatar of JZuna

Posts: 136

Well the m3 already gets a decent sight bonus at vet2 just like the 222, problem is getting it there so maybe it could get the shared experience bonus, once AT hits the field it becomes difficult to use it and most players lose it trying to wipe squads on retreat.

I think the unit is fine if you keep it alive you get constant sight of your opponents units, you can always put a squad inside and prevent lone squads from capping your points.

Most players wont bother because later T-70 does the same scouting with recon mode and can deal with any squad.
28 Jul 2020, 18:50 PM
#7
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2774

You want another Kangaroo? Nightmare of COH1 2.600?
28 Jul 2020, 18:57 PM
#8
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Just let it toss down a single med kit after t3 is built like the German cars can. Boom. Suddenly might be worth it to not have to drag your AT gun back to base for your only healing.
28 Jul 2020, 19:02 PM
#9
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

I think the M3A1 Scout Car should turn into an M3A1 Command Car after the T4 build, and get an aura or a coordinated 120mm mortars strike or something like that.


Agreed, give it the Command P4s aura and the artillery call in of IR pathfinders.
28 Jul 2020, 19:41 PM
#10
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

surely the maphacks buff at vet 2 is not enough.
28 Jul 2020, 19:44 PM
#11
avatar of miragefla
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

It needs shared veterancy as a start, but having med-kits to drop off wouldn't be broken, even if it's early game to help stem T1's relatively large bleed/manpower investments.

If it needs anything else, I maybe a range boost to 40 so it can sit back out of small-arms fire and peg away, perhaps that comes with veterancy.
28 Jul 2020, 19:56 PM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17633 | Subs: 9

surely the maphacks buff at vet 2 is not enough.


222 has that and more.
Kubel has that and more.
Even M20 has that and more.

So yeah, no, a generic scout unit sight bonus vet is not enough as evidenced by usefulness and utility of *insert literally any other scouting vehicle here*.
28 Jul 2020, 20:06 PM
#13
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

It needs shared veterancy as a start, but having med-kits to drop off wouldn't be broken, even if it's early game to help stem T1's relatively large bleed/manpower investments.

If it needs anything else, I maybe a range boost to 40 so it can sit back out of small-arms fire and peg away, perhaps that comes with veterancy.


agreed except without the range boost.
28 Jul 2020, 20:20 PM
#14
avatar of Maret

Posts: 711

Just add ability to lay mines like M20 have. Regular TM-35 (or light AT and AI mines). When T4 is deployed, ability to call smoke strike, similar to USF. Really SU don't have any off-map smokes and even their elite units have very restricted access to smoke.
28 Jul 2020, 22:53 PM
#15
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jul 2020, 20:20 PMMaret
Just add ability to lay mines like M20 have. Regular TM-35 (or light AT and AI mines). When T4 is deployed, ability to call smoke strike, similar to USF. Really SU don't have any off-map smokes and even their elite units have very restricted access to smoke.

Not a fan of this. Do it all support is kinda awkward. If the su76 gets smoke then that and the mortar are sufficient. Similarly soviet can afford enough pios that mines are not an issue. It makes it too cookie cutter. It's combat power is enough early game that it doesn't need infinite late game resources. Just something to reward keeping around or possibly rebuilding.
28 Jul 2020, 23:13 PM
#16
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4144 | Subs: 3

Why are people so adamant on giving vehicles that you get at minute 1 5 different abilities. Is the scout car not oppressive enough vs no faust OKW? Seriously taking zero loses eary game while you bleed your opponent is already OP. I think the 223 should be able to call in schwer gustav shells at vet 5.
28 Jul 2020, 23:24 PM
#17
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 643

Why are people so adamant on giving vehicles that you get at minute 1 5 different abilities. Is the scout car not oppressive enough vs no faust OKW? Seriously taking zero loses eary game while you bleed your opponent is already OP. I think the 223 should be able to call in schwer gustav shells at vet 5.


Pretty much this. You can't throw a flamethrower in a kubel and trash vet 0 rifles or cons and penals, and even if you could it'd just get run down by an m3
29 Jul 2020, 00:36 AM
#18
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Why are people so adamant on giving vehicles that you get at minute 1 5 different abilities. Is the scout car not oppressive enough vs no faust OKW? Seriously taking zero loses eary game while you bleed your opponent is already OP. I think the 223 should be able to call in schwer gustav shells at vet 5.


Now now you are better than that hyperbole. I think the idea is that should you manage to keep our around or should proved you SOMETHING. Look at other early arriving shock units: ass grens now get a 6th man to help them deal with increased enemy DPS later on. Ass engies get mines and what not to keep them providing. Ostroppen get an lmg to centralize DPS. The 221 gets the 223 upgrade that turns it into a cache AND map hax. The kuble gets shared vet and map hax. The wc51 gets arty, mark target AMD can reuse the crew in another vehicle if it survives. The 222 gets great scouting vet. The 251 gets mines.... The m3a1 gets shock? In a game based around unit preservation a unit shouldn't have a "shelf life". Sure it can lose its ability to operate on the front but it should still bring something to the table if it survives. I think that's all people want (if we discount the katy/ml-20 barrage, fear propaganda, b4 direct fire off map crowd. Which we should....
29 Jul 2020, 01:32 AM
#19
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Give it shared xp gain and replace the overdrive ability at vet 1 with a single medkit drop.

Alternative for not removing overdrive. Move it to vet 3 and replace the bonuses there. Make overdrive a copycat from USF Step on it, while still costing 10 muni (Yeah, Step on it shits on all other simil abilities).
29 Jul 2020, 02:09 AM
#20
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3047

I think OP makes a good point, however I think that it could use a different ability.

Either some timed vision (it's a scout car after all) or some slow suppressive fire ability similar to the volley fire of echolons. Would at least allow it to support flanks against lone capping squads.

That or just more sight range with vet.
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