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russian armor

Main gun crit

Remove main gun crit
Option Distribution Votes
32%
46%
22%
Total votes: 41
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
23 Jul 2020, 13:05 PM
#1
avatar of VIGNASH

Posts: 187


Should main gun crit be completely removed? I think so.

23 Jul 2020, 13:41 PM
#2
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5272

I don't think so. It's fairly rare and adds some randomness. That said I'd like to see more "wounded crew" crits where imstead of disabling a component and requiring a repair it reduces efficiency and is only time gated
23 Jul 2020, 14:19 PM
#3
avatar of Hater

Posts: 493

No. But it should never appear when you shoot at 1HP vehicle and instead of dying it's getting away with crit.
23 Jul 2020, 14:21 PM
#4
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17581 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2020, 14:19 PMHater
No. But it should never appear when you shoot at 1HP vehicle and instead of dying it's getting away with crit.

Crits can't revent kills for couple of years now.

You have a chance to get crit when you go down to 25% of health or less, but they can't save you.
A near miss that dealt AoE dmg can make it look like it did.
23 Jul 2020, 14:28 PM
#5
avatar of Hater

Posts: 493

A near miss that dealt AoE dmg can make it look like it did.

My bad then. So if I hit e.g. a 90HP vehicle for 100DMG then it will be like 100DMG + main gun crit (which means a kill), and not 0DMG + crit?
23 Jul 2020, 14:32 PM
#6
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 126

I don't think so. It's fairly rare and adds some randomness. That said I'd like to see more "wounded crew" crits where imstead of disabling a component and requiring a repair it reduces efficiency and is only time gated

Exactly this.
It's so fucking annoying to only see Main Gun and Engine crits all the time and nothing really new.
23 Jul 2020, 14:44 PM
#7
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 547

I think the threshold should be reduced to 20%. Medium tank fights will be largely unaffected by random guns exploding
23 Jul 2020, 15:00 PM
#8
avatar of Routaloid
Donator 11

Posts: 33

There's a main gun loader injured crit in game but I think there's 0 chances for it to occur, atleast in multiplayer.
23 Jul 2020, 15:19 PM
#9
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17581 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2020, 14:44 PMKoRneY
I think the threshold should be reduced to 20%. Medium tank fights will be largely unaffected by random guns exploding

Its not needed tho.
You can play starcraft if you don't want to see RNG.
RNG based mechanics are selling point of CoH series.
23 Jul 2020, 15:32 PM
#10
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2020, 14:44 PMKoRneY
I think the threshold should be reduced to 20%. Medium tank fights will be largely unaffected by random guns exploding


This is my view as well. Not fully repaired vehicles or slightly dmg by other sources get's punished while full 640HP vehicles don't get disabled randomly by 3 shots.

I would go even further and say that i would like the injured crew type of crits be at the 25% HP mark and the heavy ones like main gun destroy push further down the HP bar.
23 Jul 2020, 16:05 PM
#11
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

I wouldn't mind if instead of completely disabling the gun, a main gun critical would instead impose a severe accuracy penalty so at least the vehicle isn't completely defenceless. Engine damage doesn't completely disable movement either.

Although ideally things like a main gun crit would also be something that has to be deliberately triggered somehow just like how snares deal engine damage, rather than being something completely random.
23 Jul 2020, 17:05 PM
#12
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 547

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2020, 15:19 PMKatitof

Its not needed tho.
You can play starcraft if you don't want to see RNG.
RNG based mechanics are selling point of CoH series.


I fail to see how reducing it by 5% = remove rng, but hey, you be you buddy.

Also, see elchino's reply.
23 Jul 2020, 17:05 PM
#13
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

I wouldn't mind if instead of completely disabling the gun, a main gun critical would instead impose a severe accuracy penalty so at least the vehicle isn't completely defenceless. Engine damage doesn't completely disable movement either.

Although ideally things like a main gun crit would also be something that has to be deliberately triggered somehow just like how snares deal engine damage, rather than being something completely random.


I would go as far as say that turret lock would be a more interesting crit than pure main gun destroy.
23 Jul 2020, 17:22 PM
#14
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3266 | Subs: 1

I will never understand people who think it's good for the game

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2020, 15:19 PMKatitof

You can play starcraft if you don't want to see RNG.
RNG based mechanics are selling point of CoH series.

The OG main gun crit caused medium tanks to take 5 shots to kill. They nerfed it without removing rng from the game. The change you quoted didn't remove rng either, just make it so it wouldn't happen in 1 on 1 tank fights

Also... Trying to penetrate the original 425 frontal armor of the KT and the 225 rear armor was rng too, and that was one of the dumbest things in the game's history

"But RNG bruh" is not a valid argument

Don't have to outright remove it, but the way it currently works needs to be changed
23 Jul 2020, 18:32 PM
#15
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5272

A little rng makes the game unpredictable and exciting, but unrestricted rng makes it annoying as hell. Rng needs an aligning feature or something that allows a measure of predictability.
Things like crits only happening at a certain threshold is good and predictable rng. Tanks surving a killing blow they had no right surviving multiple times in a row and instead getting a crit is not good rng

I'd argue that at 25%...thats pretty well fine... I would still like it to become a wound rather than a require full repair crit, but happening when the tank is already being left as a 1 shot isn't the end of the world imo.

I do quite like sanders suggesting of the greatly reduced accuracy, not sure how well that would line up for animations though given the gun barrel generally goes limper than gerry's dick when someone destroys a tiger.
23 Jul 2020, 21:05 PM
#16
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4071 | Subs: 3

Is having your tank go from on the offensive to "oh shit" run, while your opponent can be in full retreat and suddenly see that crit and understand I can now yolo into my opponent with signicantly less threat, a fun mechanic? No.
23 Jul 2020, 23:06 PM
#17
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17581 | Subs: 8

Is having your tank go from on the offensive to "oh shit" run, while your opponent can be in full retreat and suddenly see that crit and understand I can now yolo into my opponent with signicantly less threat, a fun mechanic? No.

If you're on the offensive and your tank is at 25% health or less, your offensive isn't going as well as you might think.

This crit is no different then T34 having lucky streak on OKW P4, penning it each time frontally when P4 can't even hit T34 - these situations happen equally often.

Sometimes you have luck on your side, sometimes you don't.
Without that element it would just be another generic ww2 rts and even these have RNG in some form very often.

Removing RNG is the same as removing synch kills from DoW2 and not even implementing it in DoW3, yeah, it increased competitiveness, but took away the features that identified the game and made it stand out, resulting in predictable, plain, generic game.
23 Jul 2020, 23:08 PM
#18
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3266 | Subs: 1


I'd argue that at 25%...thats pretty well fine...

I disagree, mostly because of how much it can swing 1 on 1 medium tank fights. If they're 4 shots to kill, 25% is unacceptable. It's even less acceptable with the target size nerfs to mediums

I would still like it to become a wound rather than a require full repair crit, but happening when the tank is already being left as a 1 shot isn't the end of the world imo.

Then make it a gun loader crit or turret lock. Those accomplish similar effects while being temporary
jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2020, 23:06 PMKatitof

Removing RNG is the same as removing synch kills from DoW2 and not even implementing it in DoW3, yeah, it increased competitiveness, but took away the features that identified the game and made it stand out, resulting in predictable, plain, generic game.


How many times do you need it explained to you that lowering the threshold isn't removing rng? Even if we did remove it altogether, are you really trying to tell me there would be no more rng left in CoH?
24 Jul 2020, 01:32 AM
#19
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5272


I disagree, mostly because of how much it can swing 1 on 1 medium tank fights. If they're 4 shots to kill, 25% is unacceptable. It's even less acceptable with the target size nerfs to mediums

As was already said, the crit doesn't swing the engagement any more than any other RNG really. The shot that dealt the damage could easily have been a bounce or a miss also.

Then make it a gun loader crit or turret lock. Those accomplish similar effects while being temporary

I'm on board. It was my suggestion after all...

How many times do you need it explained to you that lowering the threshold isn't removing rng? Even if we did remove it altogether, are you really trying to tell me there would be no more rng left in CoH?


When standard AT essentially takes 25% health away lowering the threshold effective DOES remove it. As it is frankly the impact only adds more dynamics to the engagements.

Additionally I'm not sure why you are being so hostile towards me. Surely we can can respectfully disagree and discuss as we have over many things of the many years of sharing the forums together

24 Jul 2020, 03:05 AM
#20
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3266 | Subs: 1


As was already said, the crit doesn't swing the engagement any more than any other RNG really. The shot that dealt the damage could easily have been a bounce or a miss also.

The bounces and misses are enough RNG already. But far more importantly YOU can do something about those. Your tank being closer reduces the chances of both of those, AND if you stop moving before the shot that effects misses too

There's absolutely no influencing the main gun crit in medium on medium fights. Or most tank fights. Only thing that increases chances are using things like ostwinds and centaurs on a low health tank

I'm on board. It was my suggestion after all...

Okay. i just got confused because you're disagreeing with a 20% threshold nerf, but approving a gun loader or turret lock swap, which I feel like is a way larger change


When standard AT essentially takes 25% health away lowering the threshold effective DOES remove it. As it is frankly the impact only adds more dynamics to the engagements.

I don't think so. 20% lines up with exactly 1 shot left for anything with 800 health. Not to mention lower damage higher rof weapons cause them more often than standard AT anyway

It takes them out of medium on medium fights where there's enough going on already. Combined arms increases your chances still, since softer AT can still get into the 20% window on mediums

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