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My last personal wishlist for teamgame adjustments

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11 May 2020, 08:20 AM
#101
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Given how chasing retreating squads is generally better than staying stationary (chasing gives more DPS in total), I doubt Tactical Assault/Advance (which is basically equal to staying stationary) on retreat is that much better than just chasing without it.
12 May 2020, 04:06 AM
#102
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

Given how chasing retreating squads is generally better than staying stationary (chasing gives more DPS in total), I doubt Tactical Assault/Advance (which is basically equal to staying stationary) on retreat is that much better than just chasing without it.


Related question, what are the types of scenarios where stopping is better than chasing?

Like if you're already point blank or if red cover is involved would be two of my guesses. Not sure if that's too hard to answer cause it depends on the squads involved/how much health they have left

12 May 2020, 07:41 AM
#103
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

Ram + off map needs to go. Considering off maps are largely fine on their own the balance team really needs to look into ram. Losing heavy tanks to two clicks of a button is retarded and there is nothing that can be done about it. And no you can't reliably keep your tanks from being rammed even though rank 1000 Allied mains think so.


T34s are way faster than heavies, and coupled with the acceleration/speed? bonus from ram which is really insane, rams can connect even if there's a good distance between the tanks.

Not to mention ram can often be started even while T34s have engine damage. <-- is that a bug?

Fausts and mines don't stop ram, only sheer volume of concentrated AT fire (which doesn't miss or bounce) can. And it generally isn't possible to blob 640 damage worth of AT in one part of the map.

12 May 2020, 07:58 AM
#104
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1



Yes.

Either the range needs to be decreased on ram, or there needs to be a a 'wind-up' time, or the stun needs to last less time, or it needs to be interruptible (taking damage cancels the ram, for example). Right now, even with absolutely perfect reaction time, there is a good chance that once the opponent clicks "ram", there is nothing the axis player can do, which means that the targeted vehicle is effectively destroyed.

Really: example

The Ele starts reversing before the T34 starts its ram. You can't faust the T34 because its at full HP, and once it does take damage (which allows the faust to snare), the T34 has already started the "ram" (which can't be snared). Once it does hit, the Ele starts moving instantly and still can't escape the off-map.

Basically, in that clip, for any chance of counter-play, the OST player needs to hit the T34 with AT and then also fire off a faust, all BEFORE the Ram starts. That window There's no opportunity for counter-play.


Faust doesn't even stop ram. Engine damaged vehicles can also start ram. I sent my p4 to hunt a t34 that had run over a mine. T34 rammed me + rocket strike and p4 died instead.



Yes, but every other rocket-arty is destroyed by a direct hit from on-map arty - the LM is not.



If you know what the size of the 'scope' is, let us know. Its hard to make suggestions when there's no solid understanding of what can and can't be done.
12 May 2020, 08:09 AM
#105
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Engine damaged vehicles can also start ram.


That shouldn't be possible. Engine damage or track damage disables activating the ramming ability.
12 May 2020, 08:57 AM
#106
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2

OKW:
Stuka zu Fuß:

Unit should have 2 volley options:
- classic line volley
- random scatter volley

Random scatter option could be moved to vet or OKW players have to pay ammo for using the scatter volley right from the start.

One last try to make Battlegroup HQ more useful
- Moving a doctrinal unit to Battlegroup like the mod team did with the Assault Officer would be an option

or
- Side tech option like Sturmpionier Support package:
Allows Strums to lay down tellers or build demos or build cashes

Honestly, even small improvements would be welcome:)

Allied Factions:
Most things already said by Aerafield and others

12 May 2020, 09:59 AM
#107
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1



That shouldn't be possible. Engine damage or track damage disables the ramming ability.


Then it's bugged because I definitely had a snared T34 start and successfully finish a ram against my KT like 1-2 weeks ago.
12 May 2020, 10:07 AM
#108
avatar of SneakEye
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 813 | Subs: 5

Then it's bugged because I definitely had a snared T34 start and successfully finish a ram against my KT like 1-2 weeks ago.

Was the ability activated before or after the snare hit? I think the ability only checks the criticals at the start of the ability.
12 May 2020, 10:31 AM
#109
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Yeah a T-34 that gets snared while already having activated the ram will still successfully complete the ram. Though I think getting snared does slow it down giving the targeted tank a better chance to reverse away in time. But anyway if there's already engine damage then the ability can't be activated. I've edited my previous response to make it clear that I meant it disables activation specifically, rather than cancelling it.
12 May 2020, 12:03 PM
#110
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Related question, what are the types of scenarios where stopping is better than chasing?




This video shows the basic results. Beyond that obviously LMG units shouldn't chase and I personally prefer always stopping after chasing to get one final accurate volley off and roll the dice, and stopping when the enemy passes red cover to maximize damage.
12 May 2020, 12:05 PM
#111
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Given how chasing retreating squads is generally better than staying stationary (chasing gives more DPS in total), I doubt Tactical Assault/Advance (which is basically equal to staying stationary) on retreat is that much better than just chasing without it.


Bodyblocking



jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2020, 08:57 AMSmartie
OKW:
Stuka zu Fuß:

Unit should have 2 volley options:
- classic line volley
- random scatter volley


HELL NO

Dodging rocket artillery has to be done instantly and relies on sound queues. The only mobile arty with 2 modes is the Katyusha, which either hits one spot or one spot after another, so it's similar enough that you always dodge the same way and the alt firing mode is a skillshot basically with risk/reward. Giving the stuka saturation or a straight line would make it much harder to dodge preemptively.
12 May 2020, 12:07 PM
#112
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1



That shouldn't be possible. Engine damage or track damage disables activating the ramming ability.


Some of the time, yes.
12 May 2020, 12:09 PM
#113
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

Yeah a T-34 that gets snared while already having activated the ram will still successfully complete the ram. Though I think getting snared does slow it down giving the targeted tank a better chance to reverse away in time. But anyway if there's already engine damage then the ability can't be activated. I've edited my previous response to make it clear that I meant it disables activation specifically, rather than cancelling it.



It certainly doesn't. I've experienced 3 instances of this in the past 6 months. 2 against me and 1 of me doing it. Once was against a T34 that had run over a mine, and I went to engage it like 20 - 30 seconds later as it was crawling away. Another was chasing down an already injured and previously fausted vehicle.


Pretty sure anyone who uses T34-76s or plays against Soviets in general would have encountered this at least once or twice by now.

I'm sure I'd have experienced it a lot more if I weren't an unrepentant IS2 staller.
12 May 2020, 12:11 PM
#114
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Bodyblocking


Unless you're doing it with multiple squads, again I doubt that the additional DPS from the ability would compensate the lost DPS by having 2-3 models run in front of the enemy unable to fire. And if you're bodyblocking with a second squad then the set up that that takes makes it fair game imo.
12 May 2020, 12:13 PM
#115
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1




It certainly doesn't. I've experienced 3 instances of this in the past 6 months. 2 against me and 1 of me doing it.


Pretty sure anyone who uses T34-76s or plays against Soviets in general would have encountered this at least once or twice by now.

I'm sure I'd have experienced it a lot more if I weren't an unrepentant IS2 staller.

It probable that if one issues the command then it will be executed even if it snared before actually starting the run.
12 May 2020, 12:14 PM
#116
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

And if you're bodyblocking with a second squad then the set up that that takes makes it fair game imo.


I guess? I don't know I always felt cheesy doing the Kimbo bodyblock or just retreat path blobbing. At least with Pgrens or MP40 volks you have to aim the grenade instead of just "click this to damage more" which felt more fair when I aimed the grenade properly. That's my gripe with tactical advance, grenades have more skill required.

I don't disagree, just saying tac advance feels cheap skill wise.

edit: yeah I mean with 2+ squads, 1 blocking and 1 or more firing behind it on the move. You don't need tactical advance to do this, but it makes it easier.
12 May 2020, 12:19 PM
#117
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2020, 12:13 PMVipper

It probable that if one issues the command then it will be executed even if it snared before actually starting the run.



Unfortunately it isn't the case. Edited for clarity.

Last patch, it was on Crossroads.

Opponent ran over a mine on East near the fuel while trying to chase for a wipe on my squad. I drove my Panther which was being repaired in my base to go and hunt it. By the time my Panther got there the engine damaged T34 had already retreated past the strategic point above the East fuel. It was easily 20+ seconds ago that the T34 had taken the engine damage.


I'm not sure why you haven't encountered it. Perhaps T34-76s aren't popular in team games, or maybe you haven't noticed the bug. Things die a lot faster and there's a lot of activity going on in team games, whereas in 1v1 there's a lot less action so it's super obvious when bugs like these happen.

rdb
12 May 2020, 12:33 PM
#118
avatar of rdb

Posts: 1

Might be an unpopulair opinion but i think the ram is fine. You can counter it with mines or just get a tank between you and the t34, a p4 would do the trick. If you play teamgames and you play against 2 or 3 heavy longrange tanks. it's one of the FEW way's to get back into the game. There should be a risk about getting a elephant or jagtiger on the field. Otherwise it would be a no-brainer with spottingscopes.
12 May 2020, 13:27 PM
#119
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2020, 08:57 AMSmartie
OKW:
Stuka zu Fuß:

Unit should have 2 volley options:
- classic line volley
- random scatter volley

Or just add this unit to doctrine and replaced it with mortar halftruck
Eh I can only imagine how would it be
less cancerous teamgames
12 May 2020, 17:22 PM
#120
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

Given how chasing retreating squads is generally better than staying stationary (chasing gives more DPS in total), I doubt Tactical Assault/Advance (which is basically equal to staying stationary) on retreat is that much better than just chasing without it.

Have you seen how much it increases DPS though? Especially given that it's on SMG troops with shortish effective ranges anyway, I use it with no qualms on retreating infantry. You can almost wipe full health squads if you play it correctly, it's really really strong.
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