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russian armor

Tank Destroyer Standardization

18 Mar 2020, 08:46 AM
#21
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15152 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2020, 08:40 AMVipper

Tulips exist, do damage and do light snare. End of story.

Lets balance all axis tanks by superior vet1 mobility then.


Great lets increase the accuracy of the Ele and JT because they have abysmal reload.

Finally this thread has a specific suggestions try to focus on that and not me.

Do they struggle hitting heavy tanks?
Are they THE ONLY stock TD of the faction?
Is there a limit to the things you can pull out of your rear to twist argument into your point, while ignoring all others?
18 Mar 2020, 10:37 AM
#24
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2599

Agree with katitof that Tulips are extra, but my question is: Is HHF seriously saying FF is bad rn? Or that standardization will make it bad? I’m confused.
18 Mar 2020, 13:42 PM
#26
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 82

LoL. Classifying Panther as a tank destroyer. It's a tank hunter. Medium tank with heavy HP/armour, 50 range (10 less than Jackson, 10 more than every other medium tank that's not a destroyer), great speed, blitzkrieg and a top MG gunner.
Let's give panther 20 more range, 300 more penetration, 100% accuracy on the move, maybe then people will be happy with this tank.

EDIT: + firefly is a great tank sniper, and tulips should mainly be used to save yourself 1v1. Firefly doesn't need anything. It's slow (+ very slow turret rotation), but also hard hitting with high damage and range. A great tank destroyer.
18 Mar 2020, 14:53 PM
#30
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3934 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2020, 14:06 PMKatitof

They, however, do not perform that role in the same way.


That's just arguing semantics(again).
Its widely accepted by the community for years that tank destroyers regard 60 range TDs, while tank hunter is panther exclusive as its meant to use its superior mobility and durability to engage and win by brawling/outlasting targets, not sniping them from afar.
The only thing that could be argued is that M10 and StuG3 sit somewhere in-between these 2 roles, exchanging range and durability for superior numbers.

I'd jam puma into a light tank hunter role as well
18 Mar 2020, 14:53 PM
#31
avatar of SaintPauli

Posts: 13

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2020, 08:23 AMVipper
The JP having its range reduce to 50 is also problematic since the units is designed to counter M36/Su-85/FF because OKW do not have a 60 range ATG as other faction do.

Not if the Panther is 60. The Panther is the more expensive one and arrive later. By that reasoning it should be the “heavy tank destroyer”.

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2020, 08:23 AMVipper
The problem is a bit more complicated…Finally introducing a medium TD to all faction would only make sense if all faction had the same tools in other sector also and they do not. For instance they do not all have light tanks.

I started by acknowledging it isn’t the only balance problem and I specifically noted that the Puma should be stock for OST, but nerfed to 40 range.

I want to keep this on topic, but other balance issues includes: uncounterable recon flares, emplacements that should be doctrinal only, brits missing a standard mortar, USF missing stock rocket arty and flamers.
18 Mar 2020, 15:11 PM
#32
avatar of SaintPauli

Posts: 13

Is HHF seriously saying FF is bad rn? Or that standardization will make it bad? I’m confused.

Firefly is actually great and could be considered the benchmark in terms of standardization. Its fairly slow, low armor but has a turret and 60 range.

Now if we were to add any bonuses to that packet, like sight bonuses, better armoir, faster speed, faster reload or more health, then the basic unit should cost more. This can also be munitions upgrades like the tulips and commander.

If we compare the Firefly to the SU-85, then the SU-85 should cost less because it has no turret but also cost more because of better sight and rate of fire.

This adding and deducting should be how we balance the and differentiate the tank destroyers, while keeping the capabilities the same (range and focus on cost efficient destruction of either medium or heavy tanks) :)


- SaintPauli
18 Mar 2020, 15:50 PM
#33
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2029

FF is by far the worst TD. Not sure how people think it's somehow good. Super vulnerable to blitzing P4s or Panthers, super vulnerable against ATGs and handheld AT. Cant reliably penetrate heavy tanks and has a reload that makes you wonder if the thing is bugged. Just spamming 6 pounders and using the fuel for AVRE, Comet or Croc is WAY better than going FF
18 Mar 2020, 15:55 PM
#34
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2390 | Subs: 1

FF is by far the worst TD. Not sure how people think it's somehow good. Super vulnerable to blitzing P4s or Panthers, super vulnerable against ATGs and handheld AT.


In which gametype are you talking about? Cause FF is great in team games. Tulips are even more useful cause the stun can setup flanks by your allies

Su85 isn't vulnerable to being blitzed? I'd say its just as vulnerable if not more because of no turret
18 Mar 2020, 15:57 PM
#35
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2029



In which gametype are you talking about? Cause FF is great in team games. Tulips are even more useful cause the stun can setup flanks by your allies

Su85 isn't vulnerable to being blitzed? I'd say its just as vulnerable if not more because of no turret


Vetted SU85 is faster than Jackson, do I need to say more?
18 Mar 2020, 16:25 PM
#36
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 265



Vetted SU85 is faster than Jackson, do I need to say more?

No matter how much veterancy you slap onto SU85, it will grow no turret.
18 Mar 2020, 17:29 PM
#37
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3934 | Subs: 1



Vetted SU85 is faster than Jackson, do I need to say more?

And how's its return fire capabilities? It's not the speed alone that makes the Jackson king, it's that even on retreat it's a threat to armour that chases it.
18 Mar 2020, 18:02 PM
#38
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 82


And how's its return fire capabilities? It's not the speed alone that makes the Jackson king, it's that even on retreat it's a threat to armour that chases it.


Jackson is a king of speed and maneuverability. It's a tank with a position and role brilliantly defined. Glass cannon by definition. It needs no nerfs/buffs. And Jackson can't really escape any ambush. 1v1 or 2v1 engagement it can escape if it leaves immediately and has luck on it's side (It's better to be born without a male reproductive organ, than without luck, cause with luck, your MRO will grow out of nowhere), but it's low armour really makes it a tank that if you have to retreat with it and you're not flanked/ambushed, you're playing it wrong. I never used Jackson on the same control unit bind (ctrl-X) with any other unit. Jacksons are their own bind always behind other units. Also, sight is important here too as a factor. You need vision to utilize range.
18 Mar 2020, 18:18 PM
#39
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2390 | Subs: 1


Vetted SU85 is faster than Jackson, do I need to say more?


Yeah you do... Ever heard of moving accuracy? Ever heard of a turret? p4s and panthers have blitz, speed alone isnt going to help you, ability to fight back is just as important

And again...what game type? FF is great in team games


Jackson is a king of speed and maneuverability. It's a tank with a position and role brilliantly defined. Glass cannon by definition. It needs no nerfs/buffs. And Jackson can't really escape any ambush.


He didn't say it needed any buffs, and if your Jackson gets ambushed to begin with then you were being way too aggressive or you made a mistake. It has 60 range for a reason
18 Mar 2020, 20:03 PM
#40
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 82



Yeah you do... Ever heard of moving accuracy? Ever heard of a turret? p4s and panthers have blitz, speed alone isnt going to help you, ability to fight back is just as important

And again...what game type? FF is great in team games



He didn't say it needed any buffs, and if your Jackson gets ambushed to begin with then you were being way too aggressive or you made a mistake. It has 60 range for a reason


I literally said that and you just repeat xD

"makes it a tank that if you have to retreat with it and you're not flanked/ambushed, you're playing it wrong."
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