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OKW Salvage

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14 Feb 2020, 19:29 PM
#21
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2197 | Subs: 6

Doesn't scavange doctrine have increased times for salvages?

It does


No, Thorough Salvage duration was standardized to normal Salvage duration last patch.

Thorough Salvage
The time it takes to complete Thorough Salvage has been reduced. Being a doctrinal ability slot that replaces regular Salvage, we feel that it should not force players into more risky situations.
- Time required to complete Thorough Salvage from 20 to 11
14 Feb 2020, 19:31 PM
#22
avatar of NorthFireZ

Posts: 193

Oh neat. Still a mediocre doctrine but good to know.

how about increasing time to 15seconds?
14 Feb 2020, 19:43 PM
#23
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3440 | Subs: 1




No, Thorough Salvage duration was standardized to normal Salvage duration last patch.



:oops:

Oh neat. Still a mediocre doctrine but good to know.

how about increasing time to 15seconds?


I mean the doctrine isn't that bad tbh. JLI, ostwind, cheap nades, decent arty. It's just nothing so crazy broken that is beats out overwatch or grand offensive.
14 Feb 2020, 19:59 PM
#24
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 101


Faction balance =/= 1v1s balance. First of all.

Now about smoke, it is as easy to land a grenade and leave Okw without time to react as salvaging. So no point at all there.



im missing your point... atleast in 1v1 nades arent very common. First of all, you need a squad with nades available close to the team weapon, whcih basically means you could have grabbed the weapon yourself anyways.
i dont think smoke cancels nade warnings, so the okw player can just dodge the nade and move on
14 Feb 2020, 20:31 PM
#25
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2129 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Feb 2020, 22:17 PMLatch
So you are all OK with a unit being able to remove a team weapon from the game faster than a tank shooting at it could and for the cost of, absolutley nothing?


I think this is a totally valid point. I have no problem with OKW salvaging vehicle wrecks, but the fact that they can clear a support weapon faster than a tank can is kinda dumb

Just make support weapons take longer to salvage or something. The people saying "OKW doesn't get caches" are missing the point imo. There's a lot of room between removing salvage entitrely and not touching it at all

I know the KT has been nerfed into near-irrelevance, but let's not act like OKW doesn't have it's own unique bonuses either...
14 Feb 2020, 20:33 PM
#26
avatar of NorthFireZ

Posts: 193



I mean the doctrine isn't that bad tbh. JLI, ostwind, cheap nades, decent arty. It's just nothing so crazy broken that is beats out overwatch or grand offensive.


It's not busted and therefore it's not meta :)
14 Feb 2020, 23:16 PM
#27
avatar of addvaluejack

Posts: 252

How about we increase the time of normal salvaging and make Salvaging Doc be able to reduce the salvaging time?
14 Feb 2020, 23:32 PM
#28
avatar of dreamerdude
Benefactor 392

Posts: 370



im missing your point... atleast in 1v1 nades arent very common. First of all, you need a squad with nades available close to the team weapon, whcih basically means you could have grabbed the weapon yourself anyways.
i dont think smoke cancels nade warnings, so the okw player can just dodge the nade and move on


idk if we play the same game, but nades are super common.
Also yes you can dodge, but you cancel all time that was aquired for said progress.

i don't mean to be rude in saying this, but why do you want to take away the ability to negate team weapons? for a fuel income or ammo income depending, of 5. that takes a long time to tear down already. and don't tell me how many seconds is, a single second in the game is a long time. i'm saying this out of experience.

OKW are crippled from the start from both fuel and ammo income, that was one of the main points of the faction since launch. and to salvage these materials to keep up in tech is very manditory.

are we suggesting we revise the entire faction as a whole and turn it into something like. idk a copy pasta of another faction?

I'm not trying to be condisending i'm just outright curious in the thought process of you and a few others in here.
15 Feb 2020, 00:00 AM
#29
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2801

IMO time to salvage should just go up. Shouldn’t be able to practically just salvage shit in front of people because it takes such a short amount of time, even with the horrendous RA debuffs people have sacrificed a couple models to deny me an at gun or whatever, which is a really excellent trade for no reason.
15 Feb 2020, 00:58 AM
#30
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6796 | Subs: 1

OKW are crippled from the start from both fuel and ammo income, that was one of the main points of the faction since launch. and to salvage these materials to keep up in tech is very manditory.

are we suggesting we revise the entire faction as a whole and turn it into something like. idk a copy pasta of another faction?


The faction has been reworked 2 times completely. First one basically removed all resource penalties and the 2nd one swap some units and reworked the whole tech system and units. You could argue there was a 3rd small rework.

Back to the original point:
The concern is not the action per se, but the speed at which they accomplish the task. Did OKW needed salvage when they had 66% resource income? Sure. Specially when facing Maxim spam. Do they need super fast salvage nowadays? Probably not.

To clarify: i think this just a minimal issue but the solution is minimal and easy to implement as well.
15 Feb 2020, 01:29 AM
#31
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2037

If you wanna make salvaging more punishing by doubling the time it takes then make it more rewarding. Normal salvage +5 fuel and +10 ammo, thorough salvage +8 fuel and +17 ammo.
15 Feb 2020, 01:53 AM
#32
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2040

IMO time to salvage should just go up. Shouldn’t be able to practically just salvage shit in front of people because it takes such a short amount of time, even with the horrendous RA debuffs people have sacrificed a couple models to deny me an at gun or whatever, which is a really excellent trade for no reason.

11 seconds is not crazy fast you know? Throwing a grenades takes 1 click and 1 second only.

Lets cut this BS of exaggerations just to achieve a free nerf on a axis faction? I mean the bias is clear as crystal now.

Reduce the RA debuff and increase the time if you really want to cripple the mechanic. But its already a beating the dead horse situation

This mechanic has been for years but now its a serious problem...
15 Feb 2020, 01:53 AM
#33
avatar of konfucius

Posts: 122

really what you're saying here is allied team weapons need buffs because okw players dont find them worth capturing

15 Feb 2020, 02:09 AM
#34
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3440 | Subs: 1


11 seconds is not crazy fast you know? Throwing a grenades takes 1 click and 1 second only.

Lets cut this BS of exaggerations just to achieve a free nerf on a axis faction? I mean the bias is clear as crystal now.

Reduce the RA debuff and increase the time if you really want to cripple the mechanic. But its already a beating the dead horse situation

This mechanic has been for years but now its a serious problem...


It's 11 seconds with 1 model. I don't know the model cap but it usually only takes like 5 seconds.
15 Feb 2020, 05:47 AM
#35
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2801



It's 11 seconds with 1 model. I don't know the model cap but it usually only takes like 5 seconds.

"Lets cut this BS of exaggerations just to achieve a dodged nerf on a axis faction? I mean the bias is clear as crystal now."
15 Feb 2020, 06:12 AM
#36
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 724

And i though this would be thread about buffing scavenge doc.
15 Feb 2020, 12:24 PM
#37
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2197 | Subs: 6

It's 11 seconds with 1 model. I don't know the model cap but it usually only takes like 5 seconds.


Ability duration is always 11s regardless of how many models. For Sturmpioneers too.

15 Feb 2020, 12:52 PM
#38
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2037



Ability duration is always 11s regardless of how many models. For Sturmpioneers too.



Cut this BS missinformation to stop a well deserved nerf on an axis faction. I mean the bias of this axis team is crystal clear now.
15 Feb 2020, 13:25 PM
#39
avatar of Latch

Posts: 521



Ability duration is always 11s regardless of how many models. For Sturmpioneers too.





starts at 10:08 ends at 10:17 youtube timer 10:14 - 10:23 in game timer. Say that it takes the 11 seconds, that is still far too fast, just look at it on the video, 9 seconds of actuall salvaging a weapon right outside the enemy base, now time how long it would take to get a unit from the base to the AT gun.

The AT gun is gone, no way to recover it, you cant chase the squad down thats stolen it, its just gone, for free, with no cost of MP, with "11" seconds of time for 1 squad that has taken away 320mp. The ability is so so powerful. The amount of times I have flanked team weapons with no way to destroy them. If I want to steal them it costs MP and if I want to destroy it I have to take much longer than "11" seconds and put a squad of AT units, AT gun or a tank to shoot at it (and probably miss 90% of the shots" along with risking losing an AT gun (if I am using that to destroy it).

[youtube]al8Y0sQKITU?t=18[/youtube][/youtube]

EDIT: Can't embed 2 videos?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al8Y0sQKITU?t=17 20 42

Start at 17 seconds, it wont seem to let me link it at the time stamp, it takes me 22 seconds (from 20 - 42) to finally retreat the AT gun that was firing at the Rak from close range. Yes RNG is playing its part but its a core mechanic of the game, removing that and making something 100% is clearly broken, is it not? People hate snipers for the same reason, casters like Dane are very vocal on that point but at least the sniper doesnt remove 320MP in "11 seconds".

It is crazy good and it is simply an oversight. Wrecked weapons not an issue at all, take the time to destroy the team weapon and then salvage it for more reward. Not just delete it from existance in an eye blink because you managed to wipe it with the same squad that can then just walk upto it and salvage it.
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