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OKW Salvage

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19 Feb 2020, 15:13 PM
#121
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6796 | Subs: 1

If you already have around 2 of any support weapon, you don't really want more popcap and spending resources on more of them.
19 Feb 2020, 15:27 PM
#122
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2037

If you already have around 2 of any support weapon, you don't really want more popcap and spending resources on more of them.


Depends on game mode. In 1v1 if you have 2 MG34s and you decrew a Vickers, you absolutely try to steal it.
19 Feb 2020, 17:00 PM
#123
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6796 | Subs: 1



Depends on game mode. In 1v1 if you have 2 MG34s and you decrew a Vickers, you absolutely try to steal it.


3 Mgs is pushing the limits and maybe not the best coarse of action in the late game. A Vickers late game at vet 0 is not gonna suppress shit.
19 Feb 2020, 17:47 PM
#124
avatar of Musti

Posts: 166


stuff

I used Stums as an example because they are my unit of choice when it comes to flanking/wiping TWs
Also i should note (probably at the start lol) that I'm speaking stricly from team game perspective, so the retreat-reinforce takes a lot longer than 45 seconds. Keeping your force at the frontline allows you to keep pushing, or rotate your forces to the other side of the map and 2v1/3v2/whatever. helping you push the other side. Anyway I guess we should just agree to disagree.
19 Feb 2020, 18:07 PM
#125
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2040


i dont know why you quote everything i said when you pretty much ignore everything.
most players dont bother with it but some actually repair their tw. As i said, a-attacking is usually safer but there are alot of scenarios where you just cant do that.
just the simple example of a mg dying as it leaves a house, you cant always get your at guns in a safe position to destroy it
yes, you cant salvage stuff on a contested frontline but on a less contested flank you can, plus your at guns probably wont be on the flank to deny the tw as soon as you decrew it

I dont really get the comparison between a-attacking tw and salvaging, okw can choose the appropriate option, other factions cant. all i did was listing advantages from salvaging which i dont think you can deny

I am completing the picture you draw. Since its very easy to make a deceptive argument with half the information. Its very cool and dandy to say "salvage is OP" when you picture it like its all advantages when its not, its another option, its a feature.

Other factions have those so called features but even when discussed they are not on the focus of a debate. Do weapon racks receive such attention? Do 6 man TW aswell? What about vehicles crews? The game has assimetry and all this unique features become OP when compared to *VOID. Thats my point and you have not addressed it but evaded it.

Being said that A attacking is another option to deal with TW, with that regard is comparable, if the player really wants to deny a TW. Buffing A-attack to TW seems more logical than simply remove even more unique stuff, just because someone wants to rant about it.

Its not personal, its not about who i quote, its about its argument and the way they address it. Take it with a grain of salt if you wish, because i dont really care when people overreact to my quotes.

OKW salvage time to complete is comparable to the time spent with ATG to deal the average damage to deny a TW, with smoke the equation complicates but thats the richness of this game, its not like chess the rules are plain.
19 Feb 2020, 18:59 PM
#126
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1483

There is also a down side from a squad salvaging on front lines because they can be insta wiped by mortars or small arms fire.
21 Feb 2020, 09:06 AM
#127
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1896

Ok...salvage is OP...but destroying the TW with handheld AT or At gun/ tanks..is not..right? (only for the understanding)
21 Feb 2020, 10:50 AM
#128
avatar of Latch

Posts: 521

Ok...salvage is OP...but destroying the TW with handheld AT or At gun/ tanks..is not..right? (only for the understanding)


Its the fact mainline infantry have the ability, that it is done quickly, is 100% guaranteed unless the squad gets killed, that it takes the same amount of time no matter how many models and that it allows squads to eliminate a TW without having to sacrifice firepower or man power for the privilage.

I've linked this video several times and I will as it is a good indication of how bad RNG can be at killing TW's:

https://youtu.be/al8Y0sQKITU?t=17

If you kill it with handheld AT weapons you have invested muni into that squad, if you kill it with tanks or AT guns you are risking losing that vehicle or TW. To simply use mainline infantry to remove 260-320mp from the game for free, is just silly, they should have to destroy the TW and THEN salvage it.

As people keep saying "Its better to just steal it than salvage it" then it shouldnt be an issue to remove the ability to salvage functional TW's.
21 Feb 2020, 12:34 PM
#129
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 101


I am completing the picture you draw. Since its very easy to make a deceptive argument with half the information. Its very cool and dandy to say "salvage is OP" when you picture it like its all advantages when its not, its another option, its a feature.

Other factions have those so called features but even when discussed they are not on the focus of a debate. Do weapon racks receive such attention? Do 6 man TW aswell? What about vehicles crews? The game has assimetry and all this unique features become OP when compared to *VOID. Thats my point and you have not addressed it but evaded it.



i dont know how i evaded a point you never made until now...i never said slavage is op but it simply IS all upside, same with every other factional unique abilities/features which you can discuss as well if you want to. all i would like to see is a small tweak to the ability.


There is also a down side from a squad salvaging on front lines because they can be insta wiped by mortars or small arms fire.


well then dont salvage on the frontline, nobody forces you to do so... a-move it like every other facton. theres a huge difference between 1v1 and 4v4 in this case, theres alot less indirect in 1v1 which pretty much deletes the downside cause when you get shot while salvaging you can simply stop the process. its not really a downside when you can avoid it by paying attention

21 Feb 2020, 13:52 PM
#130
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1896

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Feb 2020, 10:50 AMLatch


Its the fact mainline infantry have the ability, that it is done quickly, is 100% guaranteed unless the squad gets killed, that it takes the same amount of time no matter how many models and that it allows squads to eliminate a TW without having to sacrifice firepower or man power for the privilage.

I've linked this video several times and I will as it is a good indication of how bad RNG can be at killing TW's:

https://youtu.be/al8Y0sQKITU?t=17

If you kill it with handheld AT weapons you have invested muni into that squad, if you kill it with tanks or AT guns you are risking losing that vehicle or TW. To simply use mainline infantry to remove 260-320mp from the game for free, is just silly, they should have to destroy the TW and THEN salvage it.

As people keep saying "Its better to just steal it than salvage it" then it shouldnt be an issue to remove the ability to salvage functional TW's.


Ok...than we should talk about jumb-out.crews which can repair their own tanks, 6 models crews, emplacments, and so on...which help alot the faction which such unquis (expect ost...they have NO ADVANTAGE UNIQUE)
21 Feb 2020, 14:58 PM
#131
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 827

Volks should only get salvage from thorough salvage. Problem fixed.
21 Feb 2020, 21:15 PM
#132
avatar of Latch

Posts: 521



Ok...than we should talk about jumb-out.crews which can repair their own tanks, 6 models crews, emplacments, and so on...which help alot the faction which such unquis (expect ost...they have NO ADVANTAGE UNIQUE)


Not an issue at all pal, thats what a forum is for!
21 Feb 2020, 22:19 PM
#133
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2040

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Feb 2020, 10:50 AMLatch


Its the fact mainline infantry have the ability,

It was suggested that only sturmpio had scavenge, start reading

that it is done quickly,

11 seconds is not quickly, 2 secs in some mobas is just too much time. Please consider better expressions, based on numbers rather opinions.

is 100% guaranteed unless the squad gets killed,

Then its not 100% guaranteed, the game has plenty of AoE skills to just deny the scanvenge, its not as easy as you might picture.

that it takes the same amount of time no matter how many models and that it allows squads to eliminate a TW without having to sacrifice firepower or man power for the privilage.

That is the uniqueness of the faction, deal with it.


I've linked this video several times and I will as it is a good indication of how bad RNG can be at killing TW's:

https://youtu.be/al8Y0sQKITU?t=17

ground elevation is also a factor, yet you dont take it into account. RNG is RNG and you just cant remove it because you dont like it.

As people keep saying "Its better to just steal it than salvage it" then it shouldnt be an issue to remove the ability to salvage functional TW's.

What is this even supposed to mean? It shouldnt be an issue to keep it or leave it, then simply dont fix what aint broken.

I think there is not a single fact that you can hold on to keep ranting about salvage.
23 Feb 2020, 06:52 AM
#134
avatar of Latch

Posts: 521


Snip


I Wasnt replying to you and you simply took everything out of context.
23 Feb 2020, 06:55 AM
#135
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1070

remove this cheese ability. Even a KT needs a few shot/time to destory a team weapon. This cheese ability returns fuel, all that you need to know it is cheese.

If relic wants diversity, make savage restricted to sturms with sweeper upgrade and extend savage time by 50% or increase receieved damage if sturms are salvaging.

EZ ability with great rewards need a nerf.
23 Feb 2020, 15:07 PM
#136
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2040

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Feb 2020, 06:52 AMLatch


I Wasnt replying to you and you simply took everything out of context.

IF you post anyone can reply, use PM for "personal messages"
Second and most importantly i did addressed your points. You dont accept it, just that
23 Feb 2020, 21:16 PM
#137
avatar of Latch

Posts: 521


IF you post anyone can reply, use PM for "personal messages"
Second and most importantly i did addressed your points. You dont accept it, just that


They can indeed but OK, I will bite:

"It was suggested that only sturmpio had scavenge, start reading"

He asked why I find it currently an issue, not how to fix it, so, "start reading"

"11 seconds is not quickly, 2 secs in some mobas is just too much time. Please consider better expressions, based on numbers rather opinions."

RTS != MOBA and 11 seconds is a short time to destroy a TW, disagree with me all you want.

"Then its not 100% guaranteed, the game has plenty of AoE skills to just deny the scanvenge, its not as easy as you might picture."

It is, click on it, you are 100% guaranteed to salvage the TW in 11 seconds, maybe the choice of words was slightly to vague but thats what I meant, outside factors not included.

"That is the uniqueness of the faction, deal with it."

OK

"ground elevation is also a factor, yet you dont take it into account. RNG is RNG and you just cant remove it because you dont like it."

remember when I stated about why its 100% guaranteed and why that it was one of my posts against it being an ability, same thing here.

"What is this even supposed to mean? It shouldnt be an issue to keep it or leave it, then simply dont fix what aint broken."

It means that people are saying (Because, I read) that salvage is rare and they usually steal the ability, then if thats the case, it wouldnt be missed would it.

We done now? Feel free to PM me if you want to continue.
5 Mar 2020, 14:29 PM
#138
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1896

when salvage is brooken and too OP..than must jump out crew and repair their own tank...without any engineer need...totally OP bs from the hell of OPness.
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