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russian armor

USF weapon racks, feature or trouble?

4 Feb 2020, 16:01 PM
#21
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 136

As a usf main i dont see any problems with weapon racks... sure, most of the time you use Bars on rifles and zooks on REs but atleast it gives you the options like tripple zook ranger.
Or you can get one rifle squad with zooks, weak vs infantry but you have the only mainline infantry with handhelt at and snare etc etc
If you go for thomson ranger, airborne or just early mine spam you can purchase the racks later on when you saved up munitions.

you get a free squad with each tech, no need for free weapon upgrades imo.

and saying double zooks are inferior to double shreks (both at 100 muni) is not correct... zooks have a faster reload, youre alot more likely to get two volleys of with one zook squad than one shrek squad (and i believe zooks have more range but im not sure about that)

deleting the ability for okw squads to ugrade in enemy terretory would be a good idea tho, doesnt make any sense they can do that in the first place
4 Feb 2020, 16:06 PM
#22
avatar of Riley

Posts: 231

As a usf main i dont see any problems with weapon racks... sure, most of the time you use Bars on rifles and zooks on REs but atleast it gives you the options like tripple zook ranger.
Or you can get one rifle squad with zooks, weak vs infantry but you have the only mainline infantry with handhelt at and snare etc etc
If you go for thomson ranger, airborne or just early mine spam you can purchase the racks later on when you saved up munitions.

you get a free squad with each tech, no need for free weapon upgrades imo.

and saying double zooks are inferior to double shreks (both at 100 muni) is not correct... zooks have a faster reload, youre alot more likely to get two volleys of with one zook squad than one shrek squad (and i believe zooks have more range but im not sure about that)

deleting the ability for okw squads to ugrade in enemy terretory would be a good idea tho, doesnt make any sense they can do that in the first place


Bazookas have much worse penetration. 110 vs 160. It are much worse. I always prefer a panzershrek. it makes even heavy tanks get stuck, which cannot be said about the bazooka.
4 Feb 2020, 16:14 PM
#23
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 136

Zooks are alot better vs light vehicles and shreks vs heavies.
I guess it depends on the game mode which one youd prefer.
Specially in 1v1 usf doesnt need any buffs, i would take zooks over shreks 8/10 times in 1v1
4 Feb 2020, 16:26 PM
#24
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 736

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Feb 2020, 15:35 PMRiley


The panzerfullisers are definitely stronger than the captain. (3 model of rifleman and 2 echelons) And a lieutenant without a bar is weaker than a panzerfuzzier.

Wow.....
They all have squad RA of 1 there is no difference between them. They also have have a Officer Thompson which is at ranges 0-10 on par with panzer gren stg's. How in gods name you can think they are worse...
WOW....
4 Feb 2020, 16:50 PM
#25
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 766

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Feb 2020, 15:43 PMRiley


Riflemans absolutely dont need these weak bazookas. I'd rather keep one garand or buy a bar. Like most USF players. It’s better to give bazooka to echelon. its against the kubel. And just delete these racks.


I would make the bazooka only purchaseable on officers and riflemen tbh. Maybe the zook could be buffed a bit to go along, maybe not. I would keep them off REs entirely. Paras and rangers then could have some more accurate/more pen/more range 'elite bazooka' though I prefer to keep them the same.

Rationale: zook REs are cheesy and reasonably shouldnt have heavy weapons in the first place.



and saying double zooks are inferior to double shreks (both at 100 muni) is not correct... zooks have a faster reload, youre alot more likely to get two volleys of with one zook squad than one shrek squad (and i believe zooks have more range but im not sure about that)



A shrek volley will delete light vehicles, zooks dont. Both have 35 range and shrek has superior accuracy at most ranges as well. Zooks arent as terrible as they are made out to be but shreks are undeniably better for the same cost against anyone with a modicum of vehicle micro.
4 Feb 2020, 17:17 PM
#26
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 136


A shrek volley will delete light vehicles, zooks dont. Both have 35 range and shrek has superior accuracy at most ranges as well. Zooks arent as terrible as they are made out to be but shreks are undeniably better for the same cost against anyone with a modicum of vehicle micro.


Correct me if im wrong but shreks can only delete m20, UC and m3 in one volley and about the accuracy, from what ive seen and experienced i will only believe that if you can provide the stats.


i stick to my opinion, zooks are better in 1v1...
4 Feb 2020, 17:55 PM
#27
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 354 | Subs: 1

I think they're less egregious than other faction gimmicks. They're weird, but it's variety that doesn't hurt too much.

It's a bit more of a viable design for USF since they have so many similar squads.

Overall, I'd be ok with it if one faction in CoH3 used them. 2 factions with them is a bit much in CoH2.
4 Feb 2020, 19:56 PM
#28
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 447

Imo weapon racks are only annoying in that they only really benefit rifles and RE:s. Paras and rangers only make use of the zooks, rangers more often. If they could get better stats to bars it would be fine. 1919s can't be equipped on rangers due to not being in doctrine (not that i want to see triple lmgs, but having them long range choice would give variety) only real doc unit that benefits from bars are pathfinders, which become insanely good with them.
4 Feb 2020, 20:05 PM
#29
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 766



Correct me if im wrong but shreks can only delete m20, UC and m3 in one volley and about the accuracy, from what ive seen and experienced i will only believe that if you can provide the stats.


i stick to my opinion, zooks are better in 1v1...


Any 240 HP vehicle. So yes, the UC, the M3A1 Scout Car, the WC-51, M20, and the M21 Mortar Halftrack.
Stats for accuracy:

Bazooka:
Accuracy near
0.063
Accuracy mid
0.048
Accuracy far
0.034

Panzershrek:
Accuracy near
0.069
Accuracy mid
0.052
Accuracy far
0.028

Bazookas are definitely more viable in general because of the LT and how USF teching works, but it'd be a stretch to say they're better.
4 Feb 2020, 20:20 PM
#30
avatar of Reverb

Posts: 79

Worst thing about weapon racks is having to move your units through pizza base to get them.
4 Feb 2020, 21:01 PM
#31
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 136

The USF base is a mess and should have been reworked ages ago. On some maps the weapon raks are BEHIND the base entrance, which is a damn design joke.

Mazianni seems to be right, even their accuracy seems to be better for the most part, reload is still better than shreks tho.
USF does have the advantage that they usually dont have to build an extra unit for the handheld at role. Axis cant make their engenier unit a at unit.

removing the weapon racks would create more potential balance/timing issues than leaving the system as it is. It might not be the most elegant system but it works.
5 Feb 2020, 07:54 AM
#32
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2561 | Subs: 1

The weapon racks are OK. Sure you will go for the standard layout of Bar rifles and zook REs most of the time, but if you are having trouble with armor, having a double zook rifle squad isn't that bad since they get snares as well.
5 Feb 2020, 08:14 AM
#33
avatar of Kamzil118

Posts: 452

In my opinion, weapon racks allow flexible customization at the expense of convenience. I mean it is a hassle to equip squads, but being able to tailor mainline infantry to a situation has it's uses. Plus, you can potentially throw rear echelons into a niche anti-infantry role where they can suppress units for twenty munitions.
5 Feb 2020, 16:27 PM
#34
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3241

I'd rather the racks than five weapon upgrade buttons on every USF unit.
5 Feb 2020, 17:23 PM
#35
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 341

Compare Ranger Bar Vs Thompson ?
Thompson better DPS on Near Range and Mid Range than BAR
Far DPS ? in my experience No way to fight LMG like Gren MG42 and Ober MG34
It mean Ranger need Close Combat for beat LMG guy
SMG is good Solution for this problem

PS.IF you need Ranger good Far DPS I think their need new Weapon profile Like
Some Red Beret Guy can to the Beast when their Grab some LMG From Their Base Right?

--------------

and Topic about USF weapon racks is Flexible
5 Feb 2020, 17:50 PM
#36
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2355

Flexibility comes at a cost. Being able to equip a weapon at will has to mean something to the game balance. Otherwise we are talking about a main feature all factions should have...
5 Feb 2020, 18:41 PM
#37
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7286 | Subs: 1

After SO many balance changes, the rack is fine NOW.

The only issue is the base design. Unnecessary big.
5 Feb 2020, 18:44 PM
#38
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 136

After SO many balance changes, the rack is fine NOW.

The only issue is the base design. Unnecessary big.


+100
5 Feb 2020, 19:50 PM
#39
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7286 | Subs: 1



+100


If you asked me the same question on release that would had been a definitive no :P

For others to understand:

-RET Volley fire BARS was not fine.
-RET Volley fire Zooks was not fine.
-RET spam with BAR/1919s was not fine.
-Zooks on anything that wasn't a RET was pointless or situational (zook on rifles). Now we have Elite Zooks.

Etc.
5 Feb 2020, 21:10 PM
#40
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2539 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Feb 2020, 14:25 PMRiley


How often do you use this? I have never seen anything like this from pro players.


I've never seen them use triple BAR rangers but I've definitely seen someone use triple zook rangers. Cant remember who it was, but ever since they got "elite" zooks I've been putting 3 on rangers every chance I get

Its 300 dmg to anything they hit if all 3 shots penetrate. They are basically one of the strongest AT squads in the game
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