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Winter balance (1/2020) feedback - UKF

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1 Feb 2020, 15:32 PM
#81
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8228 | Subs: 1

1 Feb 2020, 15:36 PM
#82
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 566 | Subs: 1

Oh boy! You get to make a bunch of arbitrary conditions!

Know what Infantry sections don't have?

The longest range snare in the game!
By a 4 man squad that can’t build trenches.
Nope, this is also vetted pfusis, which are a 6 man squad

The ability to fire flares that provide even longer LoS with no requirement for the squad to remain close by!
Ah yes Pfusiliers which can’t build defenses, heal on the move, call in arty, call in smoke and don’t have an MG with absurd vet 1 range in buildings
No section can heal on the move, call in arty, and also have the LoS, becase medic andf pyros are mutually exclusive. If you think the Vickers being tied to bildings is a good thing you just need to get better at the game, literally any other vet bonus would be more reliably useful. None of which changes the fact this 'response' is just But brits can DO things!

Already had prefectly acceptable moving accuracy with no need for a buff! And beat the crap out of every mainline in cover, though I do agree with the buff, but it’s more of a sweetener than a necessary buff
No comment

Get a grenade without needing side tech! Volks have no grenades and Grens have a long range rifle nade with huge wind up
I'm still talking about pfusis here. Literally this enrtire post was about pfusis.


Just listing things that the infantry section can do is asenine.
Don’t be a dumbass, listing all the great things Sections can do paints the whole picture of why their absurd sight is a huge issue in this context.

It's not an argument, it's just pitiful complaining.
Funny, that’s what you’re doing.


I was doing it ironically. But as you're taking it seriously?

Surely you must aggree, that pfusis having a flare and everything else above is a huge issue, and we must immediately nerf pfusis.

It's the exact same logic. Here is a list of lots of strong things about pfusis, therefore they must be an issue, therefore we must nerf them.
1 Feb 2020, 15:50 PM
#83
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 715

Pyro sight was already nerfed.

And I don't see how it's OP when it required microing a squad outside of the blob but apparently USF barfinders and grenade smoke is fine? Even with the minor UKF buffs American infantry options are way better on offense to frontally nuke MGs.

Similar issues exist with vet T70 that is cheesed for LoS in almost every game. 222 and utility car also provides good non doc recon while AEC and UC provide nothing. Pyro sections are there to spot and support your MGs in a similar role to pios (similar to pio you have one or two squads max).

Then there's the point BARS and StGs/g43s are just better for blobbing and chasing down units than brens that need to be stationairy while perfectly in cover to provide reliable DPS. Really do some testing with Bren Tommies OUT of cover and you'll be surprised of how bad their DPS is.
1 Feb 2020, 15:58 PM
#84
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2601



I was doing it ironically. But as you're taking it seriously?

Surely you must aggree, that pfusis having a flare and everything else above is a huge issue, and we must immediately nerf pfusis.

It's the exact same logic. Here is a list of lots of strong things about pfusis, therefore they must be an issue, therefore we must nerf them.


Except I agree on Fusiliers losing the extra snare range, so how are you gonna attack my argument now that you can’t find a bias?
1 Feb 2020, 16:29 PM
#85
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2185



Oh, oh, I know this one! It's Panzerfusilliers!

Not every army is exactly the same and pyro sections are one of the UKF's two spotting options. No army lacks them.


I am afraid we are gonna see the following trick a lot of times: Vet 1 pyro section spots the MG from very far away ---> smoke gets dropped ---> 5-men section blob walks through the smoke.

It's just gonna be pretty annoying I think, but would be helpful to play some test mod games
1 Feb 2020, 16:42 PM
#86
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 566 | Subs: 1



I am afraid we are gonna see the following trick a lot of times: Vet 1 pyro section spots the MG from very far away ---> smoke gets dropped ---> 5-men section blob walks through the smoke.

It's just gonna be pretty annoying I think, but would be helpful to play some test mod games


This was a problem for rifles because rifles have their highest DPS up close, own semi auto rifles and every single squad could throw both types or grenade. They were also always good on the move.

Infantry sections not the same CQC threat, so a blob of them emerging out of smoke is going to spend a while getting to the cover they need to hug to be efficient and even then, they're not fighting at their strengths. If they are using weapon upgrades they even need to be still to fire.


(On top of that, a smoke drop on your MG doesn't make you backpedal it and get some cover for it, that's on you.)
1 Feb 2020, 17:51 PM
#87
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 605

For pyro smoke, can we get rid of the red flare and make they throw just gren flare ? For now, pyro section throw red marker then gren smoke pop up then smoke drop, seem a bit strange.
2 Feb 2020, 20:46 PM
#88
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2185



This was a problem for rifles because rifles have their highest DPS up close, own semi auto rifles and every single squad could throw both types or grenade. They were also always good on the move.

Infantry sections not the same CQC threat, so a blob of them emerging out of smoke is going to spend a while getting to the cover they need to hug to be efficient and even then, they're not fighting at their strengths. If they are using weapon upgrades they even need to be still to fire.


(On top of that, a smoke drop on your MG doesn't make you backpedal it and get some cover for it, that's on you.)


yes but USF could not spot MGs from far away, thats the main difference here. If you already got suppressed before you fired the smoke it was usually not worth it vs good micro players.

The only inf unit that could spot far for USF when rifles still had smoke nades were pathfinders, but they were never used back then because they were completely underwhelming
3 Feb 2020, 09:51 AM
#89
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8228 | Subs: 1

Bug Fixes

-Recovery Sappers should no longer lose their minesweepers or weapons when reinforcing with multiple slot items.
-Valentine should no longer reveal itself on random occasions when in Recon Mode

Great work. Congratulation guess.
3 Feb 2020, 11:22 AM
#90
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8228 | Subs: 1

Sexton and Valentine

-Valentine Supercharge barrage no longer shares a cooldown with the regular barrage.
-Valentine Coordinated Barrage from 35 to 60

Now this a very bad changes.

This will make Sexton fire way too often and sexton using victor almost uncounterable. This ability is borderline OP for Ostheer but the static howitzer can be at least countered by off map. In the case of Sexton the combination of 400!!! range and being self-propelled will make the ability broken.

Suggestions:
Simply change the synergy between Valentine and Sexton.
This could be done by adding an aura to Valentine giving bonuses to only to Sexton like:
lower reload, CD reduction, extra shell extra, extra range, better mobility...
or
add an ability to Valentine that buff 1 sexton with similar buffs

If you proceed with victor approach at least move the ability from Valentine to the new officer so that it can at least be more difficult to move bring the unit calling the barrage in range.

All aura or abilities should scale with veterancy.
3 Feb 2020, 11:35 AM
#91
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8228 | Subs: 1

Assault Officer (Previously Was Airlanding Officer)
.

Again another recipe for disaster. UKF may lack CQC stock unit but they do not need a stock commando unit. The unit will completely make commandos doctrine UP forcing additional power creep.

Instead of introducing a unit that will completely counter AssG SP and MP40VG and will be able to bully enemy mainline infatry aim lower and introduce a unit will simply allow UKF to defend vs these unit.

Suggestions:

Keep the unit at 280 starting with 5 entities and have them use 5 sten at about AssIS power (maybe the officer go use the commando one). Replace the light gammon bomb with a incendiary grenade.

In addition custom vet bonus for the unit more:
Replace passive healing with received accuracy split between vet 2 and vet 3 with superior bonus
Replace Reckon flight with a timed ability that give the unit armor and suppression resistance.

With these changes the unit will fulfill the role for helping UKF vs CQC unit without overlapping with commandos.
3 Feb 2020, 11:39 AM
#92
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 605

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2020, 11:22 AMVipper


Suggestions:
Simply change the synergy between Valentine and Sexton.
This could be done by adding an aura to Valentine giving bonuses to only to Sexton like:
lower reload, CD reduction, extra shell extra, extra range, better mobility...
or
add an ability to Valentine that buff 1 sexton with similar buffs


I'm actuality like this ideal. The most useful bonus with me will be reduce barrage CD for Sexton. I dont know about increase range or number of shell but how about increase vet gaining speed for Sexton ? Or unlock new barrage like air bust shell.

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2020, 11:22 AMVipper

If you proceed with victor approach at least move the ability from Valentine to the new officer so that it can at least be more difficult to move bring the unit calling the barrage in range.


I dont think the stock officer is suitable for an doctrinal ability like so. If some artillery be authorized to assault officer then the best thing i can think of is a base artillery barrage without share cd with pyro sections, but anyway, the officer already have enough utilities.

My suggestions is, if possible, replace valentine in doctrine by an artillery officer. Then the valentine can be move to stock line up as a new LV.

3 Feb 2020, 11:56 AM
#93
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8228 | Subs: 1

Tank Hunter Infantry Section

-Now automatically starts as a 5 men squad; not affected by bolster.

Nice to see that my suggestion was implemented but I have some addition suggestion for the unit.

Currently the units has too much AI with the Boy and frag grenade while it fall back in the AT once heavy tank appear especially one can not get Sapper with double PIATs and a snare.

The current system with AT rifles is problematic. They take a long time before firing and deliver damage to infatry in big chunks while their performance is different across units.

In addition the vet bonuses are not fitted for the unit.

Suggestions:

Replace AT grenade with heavy Gammon bomb.
HGB redesign now a homing AT weapon that does not cause engine damage only temperate blind, friendly damage reduced. Imo this change should also apply to hammer HGB since mainline infatry should not have access to "demolition charges". THIF could get an extra 2-5 range on their HGB if hammer is unlocked. This change should also apply to all weapon of the same type (penal/cav R...), I shot snare where removed from infatry for a reason. The damage will be enough to keep light vehicles away and they can still contribute vs heavier armored vehicles.

Changes for AT rifles.
Reduce set up time so the weapons can start firing faster. Reduce accuracy lowering AI.
Any unit requiring AI from AT rifles, like Guards and ThIs should get via ability.
New ability for ThIs "take aim" units now goes to prone at fire the Boys rifle with extra accuracy dealing damage to infatry. ROF and damage can be adjusted accordingly so that damage is not delivered in huge chunks.

Remove cover mechanism.
The unit has to mobile to fight vehicles and cover mechanism is counter productive. Weapon performance adjusted accordingly.

Adjust vet bonuses.
+10 sight range in the cover.
Should be replaced maybe from damage reduction

-22% received accuracy.
Vet bonus should be more useful like CD of vet 3

+20% accuracy.
Should be replaced by penetration bonus

-20% weapon cooldown.

Other vet bonuses could include extra range for AT grenade or lower CD.
3 Feb 2020, 11:56 AM
#94
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2341 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2020, 11:22 AMVipper
Sexton and Valentine

-Valentine Supercharge barrage no longer shares a cooldown with the regular barrage.
-Valentine Coordinated Barrage from 35 to 60

Now this a very bad changes.

This will make Sexton fire way too often and sexton using victor almost uncounterable


In theory perhaps. In practice, Coordinated Barrage has been available to Ostheer's Artillery Officer for as long as I can remember and it's rarely used, and it's never been a problem.
3 Feb 2020, 11:58 AM
#95
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8228 | Subs: 1


...
I dont think the stock officer is suitable for an doctrinal ability like so. If some artillery be authorized to assault officer then the best thing i can think of is a base artillery barrage without share cd with pyro sections, but anyway, the officer already have enough utilities.

My suggestions is, if possible, replace valentine in doctrine by an artillery officer. Then the valentine can be move to stock line up as a new LV.

I agree and I suggested it as a last resort option.

The officer is simply a better option for "victor type" abilities than the Valentine.
3 Feb 2020, 12:02 PM
#96
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8228 | Subs: 1



In theory perhaps. In practice, Coordinated Barrage has been available to Ostheer's Artillery Officer for as long as I can remember and it's rarely used, let alone that it's ever been a problem.

1) I use the artillery officer allot and the unit is border like op
2) I explain the difference:
LeFH can be counter by off map especially when spammed Sexton can not.
Officer moving close enough to call barrage is difficult Valentine depend on the MOD but in many cases it allot easier especially since it has:
Extra sight range to detect danger
Can take a snare without engine damage
Small target size
Broken speed

and can also be upgraded with war speed.
3) Commander comes with a allot of other separate artillery option.

Victor target on Valentine is simply a bad idea and it going to be a allot easier to replace than to balance.
3 Feb 2020, 12:17 PM
#97
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8228 | Subs: 1

British Medic Squad



Although the idea of adding different healing options to IS is not bad, I do not like the implementation.
UKF can already build healing with a 200/60 forward assembly.
I find that this type healing units many times move without being ordered or sit in base and do nothing.
In addition moving healing for only 180 MP can become problematic especially since the also have "free" aura healing.
The unit will overlap with Forward assembly and force radical change to glider.

Suggestions:

Base healing
Replace the medic squad with normal base healing medic like soviets. Price can be anything from 150/60 to 200-250. This will solve all the issues imo and still allow room for the glider.

If you proceed with this medic team removed all abilities and simply add an ability that will make the unit to heal only around a flag similar to the one Major uses.In addition removed the medic from forward assembly.
3 Feb 2020, 12:32 PM
#98
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15155 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2020, 12:02 PMVipper

1) I use the artillery officer allot and the unit is border like op

It might be on that 800- rank or in 4v4.
But its extremely rarely used at 300+ if ever.

2) I explain the difference:
LeFH can be counter by off map especially when spammed Sexton can not.
Officer moving close enough to call barrage is difficult Valentine depend on the MOD but in many cases it allot easier especially since it has:
Extra sight range to detect danger
Can take a snare without engine damage
Small target size
Broken speed

Or you could use mines, like every other decent player to protect his sides/approaches/own howis.

and can also be upgraded with war speed. Victor target on Valentine is simply a bad idea and it going to be a allot easier to replace than to balance.

How is it so much worse, then - you know, just barraging the place?

You aren't going to barrage bases with it, forward OKW trucks are - you know - forward, so no need to deep dive anything as well.

Outside of that extra range, what's so OP about it that you can't do with regular use of arty?
3 Feb 2020, 12:42 PM
#99
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8228 | Subs: 1

HQ Glider


This ability is badly implement. For 450 manpower one get a Forward assembly costing 400/60 and commando squad 350 manpower and a production building. It also overlap with other commando options bringing little more to the table.

Suggestion:

With proposed changes about the Assault Officer and base medic one can retain some of the original design with the medic/air landing officer.

Alternative options:
Cost to 200-100
Unit redesigned can now only be dropped inside base come with medics similar to FA. Can now set a flag in side base sector to be used are retreat for all unit.

Can now be repaired and acts production building for commandos and/or air-landing officer. Can now call a reckon plane.

3 Feb 2020, 13:04 PM
#100
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8228 | Subs: 1

Assault Infantry Section (Assault Section Package)


Glad to see my suggestion from the preview for a separate squad actually implemented.

Suggestions:

Deployment
Since this now a CP 0 unit I would suggest to make it a build-able from HQ isntead of call in similar to PF.

Grenades
To further increase the utility of the unit in early game especially in now QCQ environment and with changes to pyro/smoke access imo the Frag/WP grenade should be replaced by a incindiary grenade similar to VG that has not tech requirement. This will make the unit more useful early on.

Building
The ability to build sandbag and trenches imo should be removed since this is unit offensively oriented and is inline with OKW doctrinal infatry. One can go so far as to remove all building options.

Vet bonuses
One could add a vet 1 timed ability that adds armor to the unit for a munition cost.
In addition a vet 2-3 vet bonus could be similar to the RO.E reducing the reinforcement cost to reduce the bleed of the unit in later stages.

Weapons
Thompson upgrade should take up all weapon slots.
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