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Zero reason why the Infrared HT should have this much health

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30 Jan 2020, 17:53 PM
#21
avatar of Sully

Posts: 390 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2020, 17:47 PMKatitof

Are you aware of Valentine?
Are you aware it had same vision as former UHU, but with shorter range and wider cone at first?

Also, command vehicle recon:
-had increased CD
-had slapped muni cost for it
-can't be used on UC, you have to sacrifice AEC at the very least, making it that much more expensive

Lastly, constant, wide cone vision >>> narrow single pass plane on long CD.


I'm proposing the current command vehicle recon, not the old recon. :facepalm:

Yes I'm aware of the old valentine (better than current IR HT), and the new valentine (better than the new IR HT). I actually play this game.
30 Jan 2020, 18:01 PM
#22
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 320

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2020, 17:39 PMSully
Nope, Brits still retain the recon ability from the command vehicle, and they now have a stock single pass recon from the new air landing officer.

Try harder.

Brit recon ability from command vehicle is a commander ability and so is the recon from air landing officer, you need right commander for that.

OKW has bunch of Stuka smoke drops which can serve as recon and decloak enemy units - just as the brit ability it comes from commander. You can also use Ober STG44, as they uncloak any unit that comes into range of Obersoldaten. Last but not least, in the early game you can use Kubelwagen vet for minimap intel.

I like Sander's approach to IR HT. Recon is a very powerful tool allowing you to always make the right move. It enables you to fire upon enemy units, call smart arty and lead better assault in general. He is doing right thing to approach IR HT vision with caution, especially that it's stock, doesn't need any vet, is cheap and synergizes well with JP4, especially in teamgames.
30 Jan 2020, 18:27 PM
#23
avatar of Sully

Posts: 390 | Subs: 2


Brit recon ability from command vehicle is a commander ability and so is the recon from air landing officer, you need right commander for that.

OKW has bunch of Stuka smoke drops which can serve as recon and decloak enemy units - just as the brit ability it comes from commander. You can also use Ober STG44, as they uncloak any unit that comes into range of Obersoldaten. Last but not least, in the early game you can use Kubelwagen vet for minimap intel.

I like Sander's approach to IR HT. Recon is a very powerful tool allowing you to always make the right move. It enables you to fire upon enemy units, call smart arty and lead better assault in general. He is doing right thing to approach IR HT vision with caution, especially that it's stock, doesn't need any vet, is cheap and synergizes well with JP4, especially in teamgames.


Air landing office is going to be a stock unit, per the patch notes and retaining its vet 1 recon ability. Which is a better version of the USF Major's Recon as you can better direct it.

Fact of the matter is, OKW is losing the ability to counter cloaked units and gaining nothing in return. That is not fair and makes the already arduous task of countering snipers even more difficult.

Also Ober STGs and a loiter recon are not comparable.
30 Jan 2020, 19:05 PM
#24
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 320

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2020, 18:27 PMSully


Air landing office is going to be a stock unit, per the patch notes and retaining its vet 1 recon ability. Which is a better version of the USF Major's Recon as you can better direct it.

Fact of the matter is, OKW is losing the ability to counter cloaked units and gaining nothing in return. That is not fair and makes the already arduous task of countering snipers even more difficult.

Also Ober STGs and a loiter recon are not comparable.

I forgot that air landing officer will be stock, sorry. Appears that OKW camo reveal abilities will be similar to these of Soviets.

While I agree that Ober STG44 decloak is limited in range, loitering recon planes tend to get shot down quickly and don't often provide much of a decloak value. They are better for using offmaps on enemy howitzers. Meanwhile as long as you keep at least 1 STG Obers next to your infantry, you will never get ambushed by commandos. I think it is a strong counter.

Countering snipers when you don't have access to sniper yourself can be tough, but with access to JLI or Falls I think it is easier done by OKW than by USF. Sometimes even a good burst from kubel can force the sniper home, not always easy to do, but better than nothing. From my experience Puma's coaxial MG does amazing dmg to snipers. High mobility, high vision range and panic smoke of Puma can help if you want to use it against snipers.
30 Jan 2020, 19:07 PM
#25
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2020, 18:27 PMSully


Air landing office is going to be a stock unit, per the patch notes and retaining its vet 1 recon ability. Which is a better version of the USF Major's Recon as you can better direct it.

Fact of the matter is, OKW is losing the ability to counter cloaked units and gaining nothing in return. That is not fair and makes the already arduous task of countering snipers even more difficult.

Also Ober STGs and a loiter recon are not comparable.


The unit could get a focus sight kind of ability to increase vision range in a narrower arc and add detection range as well.
30 Jan 2020, 19:15 PM
#26
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

it has same health as the 250 or the m 50
but it has no weapon and can't reinforce

should we nerf those too ?

Ah yes let's just ignore the fact that it isn't at all the same vehicle as a 250.
30 Jan 2020, 19:17 PM
#27
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


Ah yes let's just ignore the fact that it isn't at all the same vehicle as a 250.
Is It the same vehicle as the pwefer or Katy ?

Cause last one I checked it's the same as the AA half truck
30 Jan 2020, 19:22 PM
#28
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

Is It the same vehicle as the pwefer or Katy ?

Cause last one I checked it's the same as the AA half truck

It's a lot damn closer to pwerfer or katy in terms of role, yes. It shouldn't have to be 3 feet from the frontline and thus doesn't need a lot of health. It needs to actually be counterable for being used now, like all the other units in the game.
30 Jan 2020, 19:24 PM
#29
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


It's a lot damn closer to pwerfer or katy in terms of role, yes. It shouldn't have to be 3 feet from the frontline and thus doesn't need a lot of health. It needs to actually be counterable for being used now, like all the other units in the game.
so when do we nerf t70 health I mean it has better scouting and does not need to be in the front lines

And i dint know IR HT can shoot rocket

Or that pwefer can scout

Apple are red ,Apple are fruit , banana is fruit so banana must be made red
30 Jan 2020, 19:54 PM
#30
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

so when do we nerf t70 health I mean it has better scouting and does not need to be in the front lines


At the same time you drop it's price and tech cost? Both are WAY more than the IRHT, why are we comparing these units?

Just give the IRHT vision through objects for an ability. It temporarily gets its old ability back but without breaking the mini-map/game
30 Jan 2020, 20:02 PM
#31
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Ok so we remove the t 70bform the game like current ir HT

Then why are we comparing pwefer and Katy to IR HT? Both come way later and have different role ( scouting unit Vs arty)

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jan 2020, 16:22 PMDomine
Unless it's health has been nerfed, it's still more durable than Katyusha and Panzerwerfer. Which it should not.


i still have to see someone reasoning on why it should other than "it's an okw unit so it's must be removed from the game"
30 Jan 2020, 20:06 PM
#32
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

Ok so we remove the t 70bform the game like current ir HT


And you were complaining about other people's bias?

IRHT just needs a better ability
30 Jan 2020, 20:08 PM
#33
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



And you were complaining about other people's bias?
im copying them they compare arty to scouting unit so i compare scouting unit to light tank at least like that mods won't act as i know they let them so i can
30 Jan 2020, 20:21 PM
#34
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

im copying them they compare arty to scouting unit so i compare scouting unit to light tank at least like that mods won't act as i know they let them so i can


Nobody was saying to remove any units? Only you
30 Jan 2020, 20:22 PM
#35
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 784

im copying them they compare arty to scouting unit so i compare scouting unit to light tank at least like that mods won't act as i know they let them so i can


I don't at all agree with the premise of this thread (reducing IRHT HP now that it isn't a BS x-ray vision maphack) but your comparisons are retarded whereas the artillery one makes some sense.

Arty unit: rear area (NOT FRONTLINE COMBAT) unit
IRHT (as it is now at the very least): rear area (NOT FRONTLINE COMBAT) unit
Light Tank: frontline combat unit.

Comparing it to a LT is stupid. Might as well compare it to infantry recon at that point.
30 Jan 2020, 20:33 PM
#36
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

That was the point both comparison are jk

And by the logic of rear and front line unit than all front line unit should have the same hp ?
30 Jan 2020, 21:13 PM
#37
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

What about making the uhu a command type unit. Have an aura that increases LOS of nearby units and an ability to increase the target size of enemy units (targeted)
Could look about shared vet on it and Makin it spicy that way as well.

A set and forget is either going to yield too much for balance or not enough to be worth while. Make it so a player needs to put something in to get something out.
31 Jan 2020, 16:03 PM
#38
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

I like this idea, but i think there is a lot of room for exploits.

A payed ability that "marks" a target sounds interesting though. At least it could be revealed for other tanks to open fire.

This new ability on top of the actual HT sounds fair, but i might be wrong.
31 Jan 2020, 16:51 PM
#39
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

I dont think its fair to compare IR HT with Valentine because IR HT is non-doctrinal. I think OKW need a non-doctrinal recon sweep!
31 Jan 2020, 17:24 PM
#40
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

(I know this thread is about the IRHT's health, but I don't want to open a separate thread for this idea)
Actually, why not give the IRHT the ability to reinforce? Currently the Ostheer 251 HT upgraded with spotting scopes (it may a common occurence due to the Elephant/scopes doctrine being frequently used in 4v4) has similar sight range with more utility.
Would it make OKW significantly better? I don't think so, pretty much every faction has access to some sort of frontline reinforcement, yet, to my experience, they are rarely used. However, it may encourage some players to actually use the IRHT.
(Additionally it would allow OKW players to replace losses for Pak 43 and Lefh 18 crews)
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