Cost =! balance but I didn't say they weren't balanced, I said that the raketen costing 270mp and having free 5men squad + free retreat button + free vet1 camo + having no problem dealing with medium tanks is a problem when associated with said tanks and ultimately the KT, because its dirt cheap and resilient , even if said tanks are with their correct price tag.
Are you now only relating to the Raketen or also the P4/Panther/... that you named for your argument?
What make the KT invincible and OKW a problematic faction as a whole isn't only the KT itself, its also the fact that OKW has to be "balanced" without it which mean the faction doesn't suffer if you don't use it. Now you have faction that can definitively win without the KT having it as a the cherry on top of the cake. That's make a really big cherry able to reverse the game by its mere presence.
In few words, what is balance without the KT becomes inbalanced with the KT simply because it is a force multiplier for anything around it for a resonable cost since its cost has to be reasonable to be balance.
It was statwise balanced before because TDs were actually countering it as they must. It is not today because of the huge amount of RNG their pen nerf brought in the game for the sake of few people enjoying their 1 army's unit.
No, that is not how it works, otherwise all doctrinal units were OP by definition, because the faction has to work without it as well. You're phrasing it as if you could have a normal 100 pop build as OKW and then just buy the KT on top.
The KT - like every other unit - comes with opportunity costs due to their price and POP. If you buy it, you can't get something else. Getting a heavy like the KT concentrates a huge chunk of your population and resources into one unit. You can't get a P4, Panther or whatever other unit anymore, because this population is blocked already. Therefore, you can be exploited. That's how balance at the very basic level works, and overall that's working well in OKW.
The spearhead ability in the other hand - not so much. You're rarely affected by the 90° lock anyway in team games. 45° would be more interesting, if we wanted to keep the mechanics the same.
Are you in the last part referring to the vet nerf on TDs? That created a difference of about 6-7% pen chance. So yes, noticable, but TDs were not really what you'd call reliable against the KT even before. |
These squad are very much comparable since they have the exact same role. An alternative mainline infatry that can upgrade with AT.
But I did not compare these units so I am not sure why you are acting as if I did.
I have simply pointed out that a Penal squad and PF have similar moving DPS.
Only that was not my point, I did not compare the G43 with SVT because that is simply misleading since only 3 entities carry the G43.
I did however compared the PF squad and Penal squad DPS on the move and they are about the same so the theory that a PF squad has abnormally high moving DPS does not really hold much water.
Again, unless I have missed a patch for PF G43s or Penal SVTs: they do not have the same moving DPS. PF are better by 25-50% depending on range.
The G43 design point and how this affects PF is one that I made in addition, nothing is misleading there, but it is misleading to compare those units in the first place without context. However, I'd suggest to open a new thread if you want to keep comparing Penals and PF to keep this thread focused on OKW.
KT + Raketen. I've always wondered why the faction having the strongest tanks (P4j/Panther/Tiger/KT) and superior light tank hunter (Puma) is also the faction having the cheapest and most resilient atgun in the game. If anything the raketen should be by far the shittiest atgun available like having no more than the M-42 AT capacity and only able to poke medium tanks in general.
The modding team managed to gives OKW so much AT power at every stage of the game without any regards for balance. Shrek on Sturm, Raketen that get 5 men and retreat button, Puma, P4J being buffed to heaven so its simply superior to all other stock tanks, Panther, KT, jagpanther and then the late Tiger because why not.
OKW has been the special snowflake of the game for team game since the modding team took over, I wonder why.
All of these units are pretty in line with their cost. It's not like you'd get the P4J for the price of the Ostheer P4 or a Sherman. It also costs more population, so you can fit less units. That's balancing done right, I guess.
The faction definitely has some problems, such as MP inefficiencies unless you manage to transition to Obers, which in turn removes your snares, as well as their split tech system which at least for the first 20 minutes if not the whole game leaves you without proper healing or sub-par repair abilities.
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Nothing related between PF and KT either.
All threads tend to broaden in their topic over time. PFs can at least synzergize with the KT and do not come with all of the other burden that Penals come with. Those two squads are barely comparable, so there is no reason to bring them up and compare them, period. Penals are just tossed in with no relation nor context given at all.
Now do you agree that Penal squad has similar far moving DPS with more expansive PF squad or not?
In your opinion is it "the cancerous G43 moving accuracy that needs to go" while the SVT moving accuracy is fine?
Again, there is not much sense in comparing these squads in the first place, even disregarding the fact that Fusiliers come with way more concentrated firepower.
I do not agree regarding your point on moving accuracy because it is simply wrong.
The G43 loses little DPS on the move. I have not seen all weapons and their DPS curves, but it is the lowest I have seen so far. With the G43 being allround better than the K98, this means it is better on the move than a stationary K98. This is straight up bad weapon design, only barely hidden by the fact of the mixed weapon squad. |
I am simply responding to specific post that you might want to read again.
I read it, nothing is related to Penals. Please stay on topic. |
It's the cancerous G43 moving accuracy that needs to go. You can just blob 4 pfusilier squads and right click opponent's cutoff and they'll kill everyone on their way there without any further input. Even worse is that G43s have long range damage which is slightly better than their kar98s. It's an a-move blob that can frontally decrew a 50 cal from long range and easily dodges the traditional blob counters like Scotts/Rocket arty.
That is an issue, too. However I'd still start with the massive recon options this squad gives you. Frontally blobbing MGs is possible, but can be quite a gamble. However, Fusiliers have an easier time because they can just dodge the MG before it can fire. You're basically always be outflanked on the defensive, and you cannot re-setup your MG against Fusiliers. If that would be gone, an MG + screening pioneer might be good enough to suppress 1-2 squads before that happens.
It's an early-mid power spike that does not really have counters, because the intended counter at that time is either still the MG or an LV. If your MG cannot suppress properly, your LV is also not very safe or at the very least highly micro intensive compared to A-moving, which can cause you to lose other squads on the field. |
Any idea how much far moving DPS a Penal squad has?
If you could explain how that is related to the broader topic of OKW and Pfusies, and why Penals and Pfusies should be comparable, that would be great. |
In the broader context of OPW, I think it is mostly Pfusies that are broken for team games. Once they get upgraded, they see everything, good damage, especially on the move, the snare makes it very micro intensive to counter play with LVs, and they have a flare to prepare every push. They are also in two great commanders for team games and can be combined with a KT at any time. They are an all round good package with at least "good" stats in any category and no real weakness. If they'd lose the flare and/or only get additional sight when in cover like basically almost all other units, that would go a long way I assume. |
Does this happen only if the actual officer model becomes part of the new weapon or always if any officer squad picks up a weapon?
But I think this is an issue that has been known for longer, Relic just never fixed it.
I assume this problem only gets resolved if the newly crewed weapon gets decrewed again? |
Thread: Leavers23 May 2022, 07:29 AM
On topic:
I fully agree. There should be some form of time ban if you accumulate to many leaves in short time, as well as an auto-kick system if you are inactive. Or maybe even if your APM is very low (like below 5, which means you're only faking to play).
It's just when you look at the focus on team-based modes & gameplay on almost every single bigger multiplayer game that came out in the last couple of years.
I didnt attempt to look up concrete data but I think it would be pretty easy to do so if one is interested in it
This argument canbbe reversed though. Team games keep players longer in the game because even if you lose interest, your friends might still play. This allows selling of more DLCs, that's why they get more focus. If you lose interest in Singleplayer games, you just switch the game and that's it.
In exaggeratiom, SP is dying because game devs want it to. Obviously that's only part of the reason, your point will contribute as well. |
Those are not in the patchnote because the adjustment was made during the patch preview. Everything was made to make the officer come the later possible.
What is not in the patch notes and which adjustments are you talking about exactly? |