Profile of Hannibal

yes but at this point u just removed an unit, imagine if instead of fixing usf mortar they made it it had 30 range ?

u can see it the img how much is the difference with the kubel

the unit is a worse kubel while coming later and costing fuel, it's a jk, make it a mobile reinforcing recon unit (like the doc upgrade for the 250 of osther)

How can you remove a unit that was basically never used in the game modes this game is balanced around (1v1 and 2v2)? Also you are super focused on that single mini map tracking ability, while the main purpose of the unit is (now) giving sight range.
It has a different mechanic now, which circumvents a big bug. If it's UP down the line, you can always give it +10 sight range or something.

Sorry for my English here. Tommy was just an example why Jackson cant be nerfed.

I dont mind Jackson gets some nerf IF there are other reliable AT option to deal with Panther & King.

If all Axis have (to be specified: OKW) only have Puma & Panther non doc (no Pz4 Jgpz4 King). No matter how OP Panther is, I will never ask to nerf Panther if USF have Wol Jack Pershing non doc, because its all they have.

Its not the units. Its the faction that LACK of unit, especially tanks vs tanks, Jackson is all USF have. Thats why even though they're OP, balance team can only price them up, not to nerf them down.

As Stormjäger said, the proposed armor nerf won't do anything to it's performance vs heavies.
Reducing the Jackson's armor will make it more suceptible to medium and light vehicles. Against other TDs and heavies, there will literally be 0 difference due to the way armor in this game works.

I sincerely would like to, but of course it exceeds a real match possibilities and of course it would mean i am playing against ez-bots.

But dont misread me, i never said a stug goes down faster than a su85, that was someone else putting words in my mouth.

My point was and always will be. Since solo 1v1 a stug gets bullied with T70 (sidenote, i never ment to destroy, to bully is to mock and hit without retaliation) like a su85 with a puma, there are no real chances for the foremost to fight back. In a real scenario both units will retreat or hopefully last enough to get help. TTK and Pen/Armor were some of the answers back but both far off the point i was making. If i were asking "what color is this?" the aswer was like "I dont like apple". This kind of logic. And finally i was ready to continue the discussion about a real situation, but some people prefer to disrespect others and attack their persona rather their arguments. Pityful attitude IMO.

My quote back on "good luck retreating" was referring that a T70 having superior speed is able to keep up with the retreating stug. Some might add that screwing the pathfinding can help to steal some time, but again i never stated i was able to do such magic trick.

Again someone else is throwing dirt at my face and puts words i never said.


Added: Thanks doomlord52 for the detailed stats. I still lack of experience to gather those data reliably and fast enough to answer back in time.

The main point of complaint was that your example is unrealistic. Almost every turreted vehicle above the speed of a KT can drive behind a casemate and mostly keep out of the cone of fire. Matter of fact is that your T70 is way to expensive to drive behind a StuG to take shots at it, because you gain extremely little in terms of damage that you do but expose your T70 to high danger from supporting units and a lot of micro you have to invest to dodge those units and avoid a hit during retreat from the StuG. The scenarios in which somebody will rightfully decide to do this are sparse.
The Puma on the other hand has enough potential to use it for a dive and the smoke to get out of there. One of the purposes of this vehicle is flanking other vehicles, which can't be said about the T70.

Everyone got what you meant, but this does not mean that your example can make a point. Your point was "vehicle one can drive behind vehicle two and can't be shot". Yes, but for what purpose?

With this logic I could also say that the USF Flak half/T70/Stuart/AEC track could "bully" a Jagdtiger, ELefant or technically even a King Tiger due to the slow turret "in the same way" a Panther could bully an ISU. Yes, it can drive behind it. Does this comparison make much sense? No, it does not.



Now, back to the Jackson:

Armor nerf (10-30 armor) might be a decent semi-nerf, I think that's what the discussion here and in the previous thread mostly agrees on. What exactly is the reason that Jackson has also such high speed actually? Is it the unreliable ATG that USF has so the Jackson has to cover a larger area? Making it a bit slower could also be a possibility.

Post numbers or GTFO.

Real case scenarios show that both units gets displaced because they are outplayed. The same way for each of both

And next time quote the whole post, i explicitely said, i you want a real case scenario just ask it.
Mr Literall semantics wathever the limit

The T70 'bullying' a StuG from the rear armor is by far no 'real case scenario' mate. You probably won't really pen more than 2-3 shots before your T70 gets snared and killed by supporting units.

By any means, this whole diacussion is absolutely tidious and misleading. Can we go back to Puma vs Jackson kow?

If the Jackson fires 10 shots (including the starting freebie) in 63 seconds, isnt the reload time 7 seconds, not 9?

Stats on coh2db seem to put the time between shots between 6 and 6.6 seconds.

Hannibal did some testing a few pages ago, and came to the conclusion that the Puma fires once every 4.33 seconds, and the M36 every 9 seconds. This is only 5% off your numbers for the puma, which seems reasonable, but 27% off for the M36, which is a lot.

That said, I did forget to remove the first reload, as you pointed out. However, this just shifts things more in favor of the M36.




/edit
I just realized there's some flawed math in Hannibal's post. 10 shots, or 9 reloads, in 63 seconds means 63/9... which means the reload is 7 seconds. Not really sure where 9 came from.

My own testing showed 11 shots (10 reloads) in ~68 seconds, which gives a reload of 6.8 seconds. This still doesn't line up with your (or CoH2DB's) numbers, but it's closer.

I also tested the Puma, which gave 11 shots (10 reloads) in 42 seconds, which works out to a 4.2 second reload. Again, not exactly your numbers, but very close.



I mean "core concept" changes. The M36 was changed from low RoF/High damage to Medium RoF/Medium damage because it used to do absurdly high 'alpha' damage, which was a real problem when in groups (or against LVs). I can't think of a time when a change was made, justified thoroughly, and then reverted entirely (i.e. full 180) after years of use. There just hasn't been an argument as to why changing the M36 back to low RoF/High damage makes sense.

You both are absolutely right on this, I must have mixed it up somehow. I'll edit the original post.

That mistake's on me!