Profile of Hannibal

T-70 comes at the same time a Luchs does, or Luchs even earlier, while AEC sometimes comes at the same time as a 222 does. Simply not fair. I just want it to come out later, maybe when a Luchs does.
Idk about Jackson, I dun play USF.

I think the main issue is that UKF has so many side techs and is the only faction that needs to rely on IS for their AI fighting power until the mid game.

If UKF bolsters (and maybe even buys weapon racks) before the AEC, the AEC comes at an okay timing of about 7-8 minutes, which is not far off the timings of other LVs like Luchs, Puma, Stuart etc. However, if they don't, they can just skip these two minutes of fuel income and get it at 5-6 minutes. On the other hand you cannot screw with the costs of all these side techs too much because this would just mess up other timings.

If the AEC becomes gated too harshly and comes too late, UKF will have serious issues especially against OST because it cannot effectively fight the 222 and 251 since they will likely only have 1 unit with snares on the field. Additionally, LVs are usually the best way out of the downwards spiral if you fall behind in the early game. So if we'd nerf the AEC, all the weight is back on IS to at least win the infantry fights which could result in a buff of those and then again lead to oppressive fights against Axis infantry. Gladly we have left this phase behind.


I think we have only a couple of options:
- Increase some price by a very low fuel amount (5-10 max, otherwise UKF fuel economy could get screwed). AEC side tech would probably be the best target.
- Add some time (~20-30 sec) to the AEC research or build time
- Move some fuel costs. I think the only way to go here is to move 5 fuel from the grenade to the Platoon Command Post. UKF having grenades is not super oppressive and would not change too much, while at the same time we'd increase the total teching costs and delay the AEC a bit. However 5 fuel is really not much and translates to only 5-10 seconds of time. This also means that UKF tank timings get a mini nerf as well.
- Somehow split the AEC and let it come as weaker version (low armor or something). Then get it back to normal performance once bolster or so is researched (does not make much sense from a logical point of view, but could be a band aid)
- Final possibility I can think of: Rework the whole synergy between IS, UC and AEC. The current issue is that - if played correctly - UKF can propel itself through the early game with the UC, neglect infantry upgrades if it works well, force a LV from Axis as a counter and then insta build the AEC. I don't know what would be the best course of action here since the UC has a narrow window and IS are difficult to touch.

when i follow this logic...what cost than the 2. IS with all upgrades after build first IS and bought all upgrades? nah? it seems your logic is only valid in one direction...right?

I assume you want me to say that the squad gets more expensive because I bought the upgrades? Otherwise I do not understand what you are trying to imply and what your point is.

I have no idea what this has to do with my argumentation - allegedly - being only valid in one direction. Please make a more coherent point and show how your argument suits better than mine. I laid out my point and there was no specific response of yours to my train of thought at all.


Also please answer me this, because I used exactly your logic and even your examples and just applied it to a different unit:

If you really want to insist on your calcs and move all the costs to Obersoldaten, then OKW would also pay only the 350 MP / 140 FU for their medium (since all teching costs already have been allocated to Obersoldaten), while UKF still has to pay for their Cromwell PLUS their whole teching costs (somewhere around 265 FU if I am not mistaken). Now explain to me why my Cromwell costs almost twice the amount of fuel while it is shittier in almost every regard? Why do I as UKF pay fuel in the range of a heavy tank for a medium?

you can calc like this..yes,,,but this isn a realistic calc for the ingame. ingame its actually pretty normal to get 4 sections. and its normal to get 1-2 obers. so lets be near to the realistic scenario. and than u dont pay all this upgrades only for one section. u pay it for mostly 3 or 4 or even more. but obers? how many of them you have at the same time? mostly only 2. so my calc is more realistic and than all other "calculations"

No, your calculation is - at best - naively misrepresenting the actual game.

The only way your calculation were correct is if you paid all these resources just to get Obersoldaten with LMGs. But you do not. These resources get you to that point, but they also get you teching to all tanks that OKW can get.

If you really want to insist on your calcs and move all the costs to Obersoldaten, then OKW would also pay only the 350 MP / 140 FU for their medium (since all teching costs already have been allocated to Obersoldaten), while UKF still has to pay for their Cromwell PLUS their whole teching costs (somewhere around 265 FU if I am not mistaken). Now explain to me why my Cromwell costs almost twice the amount of fuel while it is shittier in almost every regard? Why do I as UKF pay fuel in the range of a heavy tank for a medium?

See, this is the same argument you (and also Katitof) are using for Obersoldaten and IS. They are all strawmen arguments and completely miss the point of the whole discussion.

The only point you can make with "adding" all the tech costs to Obersoldaten is that they come way later than infantry sections. But you did not. Not a single time.

Ullu argues that fully upgraded IS cost less then obers.
They clearly do not.

As you said, side techs can be skipped, but they also affect one unit exclusively(ok, we can argue bolster on REs), so side tech inflates cost of the unit it supports.

We're not talking tech costs, we're talking specifically value of fully upgraded IS vs upgraded obers.

This does not change anything.

If you do the scewed calculation and add all costs to infantry sections alone, then you cannot neglect that you get a super cheap teching with UKF. UKF's teching is only cheap because they need to buy side techs.
This is basically the same discussion as "Axis get everything for free". No they do not, as I, Vipper, Stug and others have shown multiple times now. Axis pay with their normal teching.

If you add side techs to the cost of infantry sections, then you need to add a partial amount of the normal tech costs to most of Axis infantry as well.

The main difference between the factions is the timing of those techs, not the amount of resources they need to put into them.

@OP:
Provide any reasoning why Volks are too weak. If not this thread can instantly be moved to the trash bin.

IS are so strong they had cost decrease to match their performance.

You mean the 10 MP decrease that does nothing (at least according to you when Volks got bumped up in price) in the patch before they got buffs again?