You can disagree but the stat are there and they also have to do with accuracy buff:
DPS SU-85 firing on OKW PzIV
Pre 32.2 29.0/25.9/22.9/20.0/17.2/14.5
Post 28.3 28.3/27.3/25.1/23.8/22.5/21.3
That is x147%,x131%,x119% more DPS at ranges 60/50/40.
How do you calculate those? Merely taking accuracy for hit chance is utterly useless in vehicle combat. The only semi-reliable way to determine that is to measure it in game in cheat mode |
He thinks its the gun that makes KV-1 win vs P4, not the armor and health advantage.
That's the key difference.
And KV-1 got anything BUT a decent gun.
In fact, its the worst medium tank tier gun in the whole game to engage other vehicles with, so no, its not decent nor adequate.
Also, example of KV-8 further underlines that its exclusively durability advantage, because KV-8, using its 45mm meme gun can also beat P4 in a slugfest.
You have argument out of this, because that particular specimen will do everything and anything to try to spin narrative using twisted semantic games to "prove" his point even if its complete and utter bs.
Wgile I don't agree with Vipper's sometimes weird self made definitions, this is actually a complete fail on your part.
'enough' does not mean it's the main selling point, no matter how often you repeat it. That's the at least second thread I see you two arguing about that. And I might have missed a couple of posts, but the ones I read Vipper never said the KV1 had a great gun. But obviously if you can provide a quote where he recently said that, I am open to change my mind |
I rate this thread 5/7 |
To be fair, Blitz, as you describe, is a veterancy ability that is both timed and has a munitions cost involved. The Pershing being quite speedy is still nice, given that it's an inherent trait.
What Sky is probably saying is that the Panther can easily catch up with the Pershing even when you reacting late. And trading a Panther (+30 mun) for a Pershing is a good trade resource wise. |
Why are you guys making suggestions for 2015 when it's 2020? There MIGHT be another balance patch and you people are posting wild suggestions to shake up core rosters.
Get a grip, any change is gonna be light stuff like removing 10% RA bonus from 5man Grens, +10sec Osttruppen recharge, Su76 slight mobility buff, riflemen snare availability buff etc. stuff that's surefire not gonna cause issues.
Suggests 5% pen chance nerf that affects 5 units, at least 3 of which either doctrinal and/or basically never seen.
"you people are posting wild suggestions to shake up core rosters. Get a grip"
Yes, changing the SU85 is a slightly bigger change than removing/granting 10% RA on a doctrinal ability. But don't act like it would be a complete redesign of a faction. Especially since you even put Rifle snare on your list which decently changes USFs early-mid LV counter and replacement of late game wipes. Complete over-exaggeration. |
Well if you nerf the su85 how does the stock soviet army cope with the huge axis armour values? The t34/76 has some of the lowest pen in the game. You can't do that otherwise you're forcing soviets into commanders to counter specific doctrinal units which is unhealthy.
SU85 could easily be toned down to +15-+20% pen with vet. Currently it gets 95% pen chance at vet3 vs 300 armor, that's more than plenty. Against a vet3 SU85, both SOV and OST player will assume that all shots penetrate.
Plus they have the best snare infantry in the game. |
Whilst the accuracy increase is marginal (due to only the 40 vs 45 max range), mid dmg being 56 vs 60 @ 1.25(again marginal) I agree on the far AOE being far superior for wounding. I had not known the far aoe to be so high (8dmg at 1.875[Pz IV] vs 36dmg at 4[KT]).
I was slightly unprecise in the wording here: KT has lower scatter. Meaning although the OHK radius is lower, it should have a higher chance of actually landing its shot. Without calculatung this now completely, I would assume the KT has better OHK potential on full health models because of that.
KT is a real beast. |
While we're at it, the KT's 80dmg aoe kill distance is worse than a pz iv last time I checked: 1.04 vs 1.13. This isn't right, the KT 80 aoe should be larger.
While this is true, the King Tiger shoots way more accurately. Plus the mid-far AoE is way way better, so overall this 0,1 m OHK difference will definetely not be felt. KT is great at taking health and models off a squad, somewhere in between the Pershing and ISU.
I don't recall the values but the Pershing gets its rof doubled at vet 3amd before that can get a 30% reduction iirc through combined arms.
As Katitof said, this is not true. Also the Pershing has 1 sec of wind down, which will not be affected by vet and comes from a quite slow firing fun anyway (about 7 sec per shot iirc) |
I think the AoE nerf should be partially reverted. Pershing's specialty was the superior AI power while you needed to heavily support it against armor. Unfortunately the heavy patch really killed the unit and took its uniqueness.
I'd say change the mid AoE to 50, that would up the OHK radius from 0,7 to 1 meter (pre patch 1,3 or so). Might be enough, although OPs suggestions are also not bad balance wise, I'd rather have the Pershing more squishy and closer to the original design. Especially since Axis have problems against units above 300 armor, so increasing the armor would especially cause more issues. |
nice joke...but lets get back seriously. The Zis barrage cool down is mostly ready whenever u need it. and cost the same like a grenade. it seems the barrage has even shorter reload cd than a grenade. Which is awefull since it wipe better than a grenade and have much more range. Much more.
look at brummbar. its barrage has more cd than a lefh.
zis barrage should have cd from 50sek
Without wanting to touch the ZiS/SU76 CD:
The Brummbär/LeFG comparison is nonsense. Brummbär can fire apart from the barrage. Its barrage is just a (very strong) addon. |