How about a rework of how they function?
Goal of rework: make Osttruppen arrive slightly later and be less powerful alone but more powerful when mixed in to a build
Rework idea:
Require T1 built
Accuracy decreased by 10%
Osttruppen gain +15% accuracy when within 20m of a mainline infantry squad (Panzergrenadiers and Grenadiers), shown as a passive ability in the UI named “disheartened infantry” that states “disheartened troops fight poorly when no supporting infantry units are nearby”
These auras look nice on paper, but usually lead to blobs of doom (that's why the Sturmoffizier was reworked as well). Hard to tell how ot would be for Osttruppen though since they work very very bad as moving blobs. |
Its not their damage, its their map control that's the problem.
That's exactly what I already said on page 2. This second suggestion was directed to fix Osttruppens late game weakness and make them more attractive in team games. |
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If Osttruppen are still too good, why not reduce their in-cover bonus while boosting their MG42 damage?
That way they could be toned down a little while even getting a late game boost to scale slightly better. Also the weapon upgrade would allow to replace lost Osttruppen better. |
This is irrelevant to teching argument. Ostheer's mainline infatry arrive later than all other faction. That is simple fact.
The end result is that when the move for the first engagement they are in worse position although their are defensive infatry.
That is one of the reasons Ostt are even worth while, they allow Ostheer to hold ground early.
This is literally the intended design and has not been an issue for years now. Ostheer has seen many metas and many with Gren builds. Also Osttruppen work as intended, they just appear to be a bit too strong in the current meta. |
I am wondering: What argument is against just increasing the cool down? The issue with Osttruppen is that they are too strong early game due to high map presence and binding more valuable units. Just being unable to push them out earlier would reduce the benefit of map presence.
So Ostheer not only will not have mainline infatry available from T0 as other faction have but they will now not even access to Doctrinal T0 unit with T1.
That make little sense especially since some of the problems Ostheer actually have start with having their mainline infantry arriving the latest.
Moving them to HQ is a far better solution since their timing will be the same regardless of map.
Ostheer teching is barely comparable to teching of any other faction. "Faction X has this, faction Y needs it too" barely works here. |
I am absolutely fine with the RNG, absolutely fine with critical strikes, with the plane crash on my infantry units. Absolutely fine as it was. And my opinion is simple, if someone doesn't like it, make custom settings - a game without all this is like a historical skin. Do not disturb others who are enjoying it fully, as it is.
It is fully valid to think that this level of RNG is fine and that's the way you want the game to be.
It does not hold any better arguments though than changing it. As Pip said, you can also just make a mod and add all the RNG you want until you have the perfect game for yourself. There is no inherent truth in either of these opinions, but wiping other people's opinions away with "go play something else" is just arrogant and does not help at all. |
If you don't like it, go play chess. There is perfect balance and no critical damage. Do not go where you are not asked, the game is fine. Critical damage has been in this game for seven years. Let's delete them because you don't like them, let's further castrate the game.
If you do like RNG so much, go play slot machines. There is perfect balance and all is RNG coin flips. Do go where you are asked, the game is fine. RNG coin flips have been in this game forever. Let's not delete them because you like them, let's not further castrate the game.
These over exaggerations are utterly useless. What is the argument here?
Nobody playing this game is seriously debating to remove all RNG. You're trying to throw people into your premade "opinion baskets" by implying things they actually never said. With the same reason I could say you should go play slot machines because apparently you like RNG so much it should be the only reason that determines the outcome of a match (see the fake quote above).
Obviously this argument is bullshit.
The only question is: Is there enough influence the player(s) can take on the outcome of RNG to be in control of what happens?
Main gun crits are to a lesser extend controllable, yes. But the outcome can often be game deciding, especially if you just entered mid game and this is the first tank on the field. They are also not reliable. You are good to go 90% of the time, but 10% of the time it screws you (or your opponent) over. Which makes it also different from the "normal" RNG of accuracy and penetration rolls: These are always the same. Every player knows what his odds are in a certain situation. Hitting but not penning 10 times might happen, but these events are very low. Also these rolls are frequent enough to usually even things out over the course of a match. A main gun crit occurs once, maybe twice a match. They can barely even out at all. |
Or... don't put them in disadvantegous positions?
You know, it might not be that obvious to everyone, but T34 in front of KT isn't going to end well and no amount of RNG luck on T34 will change it, while you can make a bet vs OKW P4.
But you do realize that completely not using a half health tank can often cost you the game because you're not getting the most out of it?
If you play the game you should realize that pushing a 25% medium with your 50% medium is something every player with at least half a brain would do in 90% of the situations (especially as Allies where you trade up). Still you can just suffer the main gun crit in the first shot and your tank is basically gone.
Like betting on grens sniping a rifle before they get close?
Like maxim suppressing something before it throws nuclear/lava nade?
Like arty actually hitting what you were intended to hit with 1st shot?
Are you seriously comparing a potentially lost engagement or losing 20-50 MP more than the enemy to losing a tank that costs >300 MP and >110 fuel??
Talking about apples and oranges mate...
Game is absolutely FULL of these low odds events.
You have some influence over most of them.
And the ones you don't are/were already removed, like plane crash unit wipes.
The remaining ones are the very reason why the game is still so fresh, engaging and interesting to play AND watch.
Sorry, but these are not unfair.
They may cost you the game, but you know the risk and if you commit anyway, its 100% on you.
Right. Is that also why all the "gunner injured" etc crits have been removed? They basically occurred in every tank shoot out in the first builds of the game. Where's your post about bringing those back? |
I'm not sure, really. The Assault Officer would definitely need to be changed to accommodate being their starter unit.
Vague thoughts that the Officer could, instead of being necessarily an "assault" Officer, begin the game as an infantry section, with different upgrade paths, and perhaps without the cover requirement. Upgrades include: "Assault" (Becomes as it is currently), a reworked "Raid" upgrade, including the scoped Enfield, but without quite such schizophrenic design, or whatever else could be suggested.
If the Balance Team are set on removing the Section capture bonus, I think it might be interesting to then give it to the Officer. Given that it's an unit limited to one being on the field at any one time, I think it lends some potentially more interesting design space, rather than trying to give tommmies every option under the sun. The Officer is apparently not a terribly popular unit at the moment, after all.
EDIT: Really, I keep thinking about these rather complex design solutions to issues, I feel as though it's a little naive given that there are likely rather simpler solutions possible.
As you said, I think your idea is super complicated for something that is not an issue anyway, BUT:
I actually like the idea of giving the capture bonus to the officer. Maybe even as an ability: officer unit and IS sections in a certain range get increased capture/decapture rates for some time. Arbitrarily I'll just pick for 30 seconds or so. Then make the ability relatively cheap for 30 mun. Would not promote blobbing (rather even spreading out units) and the officer has a utility ability that would be in line of a "command" unit. This ability would also be relatively useless in a game with constant fights, but if you manage to win a bigger battle you can capitalize quickly by activating it and decapping a couple of points quickly. |
I wonder if it would be possible at all to balance the Assault Officer as the Brits' starting unit?
Unless it gets heavily nerfed, no.
I also don't see the design benefit of having a CQC assault unit as the starter unit of an otherwise defensive and static faction. Or did you have a specific idea in mind? |