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Thread: M36 Jackson10 Jun 2019, 11:42 AM Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 11:23 AMHannibal Of course this is true. Without M36 USF could only fight mediums at best, because Stuarts and the US Pak do not have the pen to deal with anything heavier than a Stug. So the M36 needs the pen to damage a Panther and even heavier. It's not well designed, but that's what we got. Yes the M36 should be able to fight the Panther and heavier. On the other hand it should not be able to Penetrate the Panther with 100% chance to hit and penetrate at range 60 nor it should be able to completely shut down the PzIV. Superior allied infatry and TDs that can penetrate axis armor from range 60 is bad designed that reduce the diversity of built orders. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration10 Jun 2019, 09:48 AM Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 09:38 AMKatitof (psst, that's the case if you have a faction that doesn't have alternative, you know, like 2 dedicated TDs stock in 2 different tiers - its not a privilege, its a necessary requirement) No matter how many time you repeat the same argument it will not become true. psst, load the game you will see that only 2 out of 5 faction have 2 dedicated TDs stock in 2 different tiers. (actually one since SU-76 can barrage) In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration10 Jun 2019, 09:30 AM Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 09:24 AMblvckdream This is just wrong. If you consider price, tech and timing you will realise Stugs do well vs Churchills + it´s different variants, Pershing, KV1 and KV2. A pair of Stugs is very powerful especially with TWP. Yes they are not the answer to T70 into IS2 stall tactics but that's the beauty of COH2. Not every unit is right for every situation. No that privilege is only reserved for the M36. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: AT / Raktenwerfer OKW revamp9 Jun 2019, 22:46 PM The unit need a veterancy overhaul providing bonus even when out of cover and when in garrison. Reaction times should also be drastically reduced. Ir also need more durability weather it damage reduction, extra member or something else. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration9 Jun 2019, 22:43 PM Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2019, 14:37 PMHannibal Ost has an excellent Pak, even the Stug faires well on paper, and then there are Panzergrenadiers that can deal with TDs very well. The problem is that the last two units have their own problems and therefore are not build which reduces OSTs current options to Pak and Panther. The problem is not the Panther but Panzergrenadiere and Stug in my eyes. If we also look at 1v1 frontal assault scenarios only (like you implicated with the SU85), the Panther does well against Jackson and Firefly (cost-corrected). To clear things up: What is your suggestion? How much do you want to buff Panther / nerf SU85? I think it is better so spread out the AT capacity over multiple units. We can see with USF what happens if the AT gun is trash against actual tanks and the bazookas are only mediocre: USF must completely rely on the Jackson from the mid-game onwards. I am not suggesting to buff the Panther and nerf the Su-85. I am simply making some points: 1)Unit should have role in the game. 2) Units should be balanced both in vet 0 and at higher vets. The relationship could change if there is a reason. A unit vetting slower might need to have superior vet bonuses. 3) Unit should be priced according to their role if the role of the JP is to counter enemy mediums and enemy tank destroyer the unit should cheaper than those units. 4) Tds should not have 100% chance to hit and penetrate enemy vehicles at range 60. Else they have little reason to engage in other ranges. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration9 Jun 2019, 13:46 PM Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2019, 13:34 PMHannibal Please read again. The hole in the theory that they are not meant to fight each other, is that SU-85 is meant to counter the Panther and Ostheer have no stock vehicle to counter the SU-85 so when it comes to vehicles the Panther is their best bet. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Allied vs axis staying power9 Jun 2019, 13:41 PM Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2019, 13:02 PMWarspite Assuming i go t1 right.. You can vet pios early because they can even duel conscripts at close range or u can upgrade to flamer the same way.. cons also have bigger target size than CE or Pios..while u can merge and keep them in frontline grens with mg-42 will drop them both like flies when they try to close in if you want to go for the weapon argument Not really C.E. flamer and merge require no building at all. By the time one gets his pioneers close to conscripts (and he will probably facing penal and not Conscripts) they can simply retreat. One's pioneer will have taken damage and dealt little. If one spends munition on flamers one is delaying his healing so his pios will not be able to attack with full health. In addition one is also delaying weapons for grenadiers. One might also find himself without P.F. when you need it. The target size is rather irrelevant when it comes to flamers it has 100% accuracy. CE are also cheaper and unless mistaken have lower XP value. Finally flamer work allot better with CE rifles than Pioneers MP-40. Flamer optimum range is 20 and the rest of squad is usually even further back where the MP-40 contribute allot less Damage then the mosin. I suggested you test CE with flamer pioneer with flamer in game and see who you can vet easier. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration9 Jun 2019, 13:17 PM Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2019, 12:03 PMKatitof Quoted for emphasis. Maybe now if certain individual reads it coming from someone who IS ENFORCING CURRENT RELIC BALANCE PHILOSOPHY DIRECTLY BY WORKING ON BALANCE PATCHES, that certain individual finally will get it and stops rambling that tank hardcounter can't hardcounter its own hardcounter or negate its own hardcounter vet by its own vet. Since you seem to take the post a Certain member as being correct you also have to take other comments of the same individual also as correct. Jump back to quoted post6 Jun 2019, 09:22 AMSander93 If you just want to make the Jackson bad against mediums, you could just nerf its ROF instead of going through all the creative trouble of adding multiple shells. Either would make USF unable to deal with mediums unless they have a 76mm/E8/M10 commander, so I'd say that wouldn't be very ideal. The Jackson needs to be strong (overpowered) because it's the only thing holding USF late game together, because they have a severe lack of other good AT options. If it's too cost effective against all targets, and mostly against mediums, I'd say it's a good start to... just make it cost more than a medium and make it a bit less likely to penetrate Panthers and heavies at max range. Which clearly say that allied TDs are OP at max range and need a nerf. Now it high time you realize that all individual are entitled to an opinion not only certain and that you should respect that opinion (and the individual) instead of going on crusade to prove them wrong. By the way have you decided, if the Sherman is the most cost efficient medium, yet? In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration9 Jun 2019, 13:12 PM Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2019, 12:50 PMHannibal I do not argue with your stats, because there is nothing to argue. In a Panther vs SU85 engagement, the SU85 performs better at vet 2 than at vet 0 vs the same vet Panther, this is true and I never doubted that. I argue if your point makes that much sense, because your Panther should not regularly exchange shots with a SU85 in the first place. (Exaggerated example If your PaK40 faces off against the 6 pounder, and the PaK gets an accuracy bonus while the 6 pounder gets a pen bonus (just making this up as an example), then the PaK will win this fight. This does not mean that the 6 pounder would need a fifth man to become tankier, because it cannot fight off a PaK40. These units just should not shoot at each other. Then you agree that there is something wrong with veterancy bonus which is my point. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration9 Jun 2019, 11:58 AM Jump back to quoted post9 Jun 2019, 11:42 AMHannibal 1. They are both the end game TD of the respective faction. And even then your argument works only for OST, since OKW needs to build T4 anyway. 2. For the numbers: Panther needs 7 shots face-to-face to kill a SU85 SU85 needs 9 shots face to face to kill a Panther Cost-corrected this pushes the SU85 up to a price of 450 MP / 167,14 FU / 19,29 POP For comparison Panther: 490 MP / 185 FU / 19 POP EDIT: this is the average shot number (corrected for accuracy and pen chance, neglecting collision hits) that the tank needs to fire to kill its opponent. Panther is therefore slightly underperforming is a performance-to-cost perspective. But you get a more sturdy unit against mediums and AT guns. And also a turret. At least in this case, I don't think the balance is that far off. I am not sure what method you are using to get the numbers but you are still missing my point. Compare the units at vet 0 and at vet 2 you will probably come to the conclusion that SU-85 trades significantly better at Vet 2. In: COH2 Balance