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Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration10 Jun 2019, 17:16 PM Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 16:27 PMLago I think it was more a problem of the SU-76 also obliterating AT guns. One SU-76's barrage was okay. Four of them at once was a dead Pak. Part of the problem with SU-76 barrage is it vets abnormal fast and the barrage benefits from the damage increase. Kill radius at vet 2 should be around 1.875 when mortars have 0 kill radius. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration10 Jun 2019, 16:21 PM Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 16:09 PMSander93 .... I've asked Relic. Wind up and win down times have nothing to do with balance. They are there simply for animation purposes. Basically it has something to do with the recoil animation and some tanks needing more time for it. Then it wind down probably also works as limit so that the weapon will not fire until animation is done. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration10 Jun 2019, 16:16 PM Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 15:51 PMLago I'm not even sure what Target Weak Point does any more. I'd replace it across the board with the OKW Puma's Aimed Shot. but i don't like snipers so I would say that Elephant/88 +100% penetration, will stun enemy vehicle. Pak +900% penetration for 10 seconds. Hits disable weapons and movement for 5 seconds. Stug-E Penetrating shells will stun enemy vehicle, disabling its gun and vision for 5 seconds. Will always penetrate. -40 damage. Stug-G +100% penetration, will lock enemy vehicles turret temporarily and disable its main gun. Puma Penetrating shells will stun enemy vehicle, disabling its gun and vision for 5 seconds. Will always penetrate. -60 damage. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration10 Jun 2019, 15:40 PM Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 15:34 PMIncendiaryRounds What I don't understand is why does the Stug TWP now take forever to load. It used to be almost instant, (which isn't balanced either) but now it takes much longer than a normal shot. I never use Stug TWP. It's entirely useless because 1) takes a very long time to load 2) does much less damage 3) the time of effect is significantly reduced. 4) The ability is often bugged and the enemy tank still manages to shoot despite the "blind eye" icon is still present? I think the ability should be reverted to what it was before except keep the current 5s disable time. The only thing op about the old TWP was how long the tank was disabled and the fact that the TWP was literally instant but now the loading time is far too long. I agree that the skirts bonus on Stug is next to useless. By the time you get vet 2, heavies will appear, at guns still pen almost 100% even with the skirts, stock allied meds only bounce every third shot. I think we should move a bit more or all of the RoF boost from vet 3 to vet 2 and give a pen bonus or +5 range at vet 3. I see little reason why so many Otheer units should have TWP and actually different version of it.(there area actually 5 version of the ability) Simply replace it single AP round with higher penetration. (this would be good change for USF AP round also). In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration10 Jun 2019, 15:31 PM Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 15:05 PMSander93 I meant I have no idea why some weapons/vehicles have it while others don't. I figured wind up could be a mechanic to balance turrets vs casemates (as turreted tanks are able to aquire new targets without moving) but then not all turreted tanks have wind up and down times. Not all stats make sense. Actually allot do not. Especially since the same viable exist for different type of weapons. Think it was introduced so that can better adjust ROF. Aim times is affect by range wind up/wind down it not. There is also a chance that the wind down is used as the lower limit of cooldown. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration10 Jun 2019, 15:02 PM Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 15:00 PMSander93 As Elchino said, you also have to take wind up and wind down times into account, that some vehicles have. Tbh I have no idea what it's for and why only some vehicles/weapons have it, but it adds to the reload. If you use https://coh2db.com/stats/, look up a vehicle's weapon and hover your mouse over the yellow/orange dot in the graph and you'll see what the actual reload time of the weapon is. Wind up is a time before a shot (before aim time) Wind down a time after a shot (before cool-down) In: COH2 Balance
Thread: M36 Jackson10 Jun 2019, 14:48 PM Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 14:04 PMLago It has that penetration so it can deal with heavy tanks. It has AP round vs Heavy tanks and since it has high penetration it does not needs accuracy and accuracy vet buff. In addition Heavy tanks are slower thus it it can kite them. The point it does not need such high accuracy and penetration at range 60. The current numbers simply do no make sense. A) the units optimum range is 60 vs nearly all target and has no reason to move closer B) the veterancy bonuses are wasted in most cases since accuracy and penetration caps are exceeded 3) Vet ability is wasted since it reduce ROF and offer little in return while costing mu. Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 14:04 PMLago I mean the tanks are already well balanced against each other. If you make the Panther better against the Jackson, then you give the Panther an edge. If you give the Panther an edge, then USF has no stock answer to it. A) Panther is more expensive thus outnumbered B) Panther has limited AI even it if defeats a M36 Ostheer wil have little to defeat the USF infatry C) The suggestion is not that Panther should defeat the M36 but it should either be an XP source being hit and penetrate with 100% chance at Range 60. The current situation simply promote static play from USF player either their static play should become weaker or Ostheer offensive play should be buffed to above USF. Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 14:04 PMLago I apologise. Apology accepted and I have to say "bravo" for it. It is refreshing and admirable to see it in this forum. It also understandable we all rage a bit at some point or another. Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 14:04 PMLago It can. The Jackson isn't going to one-shot it. You can play a Panzer IV into a Jackson the same way you can play a Centaur into a Panzer IV. You keep AT support nearby, and when your anti-infantry vehicle takes too much heat you pull it back to safety. Repair, repeat. Difference here is that PzIv has to close to range 40 and not 60. In order for that to work PzIV should have its armor vet bonus replaced with +5 range at vet 2 another +5 at vet 3. Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 14:04 PMLago Is it? Based on the numbers I'd say it's about the same. Only Su-76 has range 60 and its DPS is far lower at that range. I suggest you do the calculations you might be surprised. Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 14:04 PMLago I don't think nerfing the Jackson against medium tanks would change that. If the enemy is building medium tanks and USF has the infantry advantage, it's going to go for a tank destroyer anyway. Why build anti-infantry vehicles when you're already winning the infantry battle? In contrast, Ostheer is usually losing the infantry battle at that point, so it desperately wants the P4. USF wouldn't have to built anti infatry vehicles like the Scott but they would a reason to all the Sherman models like Easy8, Dozer Sherman, 105mm Sherman, 76mm Sherman and the M10. Exactly so Ostheer investment should be one that carrier in late game and PzIV should not simply be a shock unit that becomes obsolete even when vetted once FF/SU-85/M36 hit the field. In the end of the day it Panther and Tiger is the issue simply delay the appearance and also delay the appearance of these Heavy TDs. To summarize giving 100% chance to hit and Penetrate at range 60 vs the majority of target is bad design harming the diversity of unit built for both axis and allies. It is probably unnecessary, there is also little evidence to support that the that reducing the effectiveness of there vehicles vs PzIVs or reducing the effectiveness of these vehicles at range 60 would be problematic. Even if does prove problematic is worth testing and reverting if no other solution is found since the change will sift the current boring meta. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration10 Jun 2019, 13:05 PM Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 13:01 PMFelinewolfie =========== No. SU76 = StuIIIG (StuIIIG is better) SU76 is weaker but has arty. Su85 = Panther Different, but same idea. People scream for SU76 pen to be reduced, yet it does less dmg (120 vs 160) and has less pen than StuG ... and you want StuG to be buffed? Wouldn't it be great if SU-76 could handle Tigers and Panthers 1 on 1 ? That's basically what you are asking for. Check your stats the Stug does not have more penetration the SU-76. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: M36 Jackson10 Jun 2019, 12:49 PM Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 11:54 AMLago The Jackson vs Panther dynamic's already fine. The Panther has the edge within 50 metres, so the Jackson has to leverage its extra range. It's a lot like SU-76 vs Panzer IV. The m36 has will still have edge because it has range even without 100% chance to hit and penetrate at range 60. It current penetration value make even the HVAP round a noob trap ability, a player has little reason to use it other than damage (which is situational). Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 11:54 AMLago A token penetration adjustment adds annoying low probability bounces without making the Panther meaningfully stronger. A more substantial adjustment would give the Panther a universal edge, turning it into a vehicle that counters the entire USF motor pool. The game is design around probabilities it is not AOE. Middle ground exist, in balance there is not only OP and UP. Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 11:54 AMLago And the shutting down the Panzer IV thing is total bullshit. The Panzer IV is a generalist tank: it can still fight infantry. You are entitle to your opinion but so are others PLS mind the language. PzIV can not fight infatry if that infatry is supported by M36. If M10/Stug/SU-76 are enough to fight a mediums there is little reason why M36 should be even more effective than those. USF have access to very cost efficient unit and the only reason one does not seem them is that M36 is so good vs every enemy vehicle. The performance of the M36 vs mediums not only make mediums a bad choice for axis but also for allies and it make "infatry/TD" the optimum strategy. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: StuG and JPIV Penetration10 Jun 2019, 11:45 AM Jump back to quoted post10 Jun 2019, 11:30 AMHannibal Targets of StuG and JP4 are light vehicles and mediums. Allied medium tank is usually 160 armor, making Stug and JP4 pen with 100% chance. Unlike Axis, with the expection of Soviets Allies do not have access to another tier of tank destroyers that can deal with heavies. This means that their TD must be able to deal with the heaviest armor, otherwise we go back to the "I win"-King Tiger button. Also, Allies usually don't have much heavy armor, so the Panther is an additional option as a brawler tank or against heavy call ins or heavier British tanks to reliably deal with them. That's why Stug and JP4 don't need the pen to deal with heavy armor. Also, JP4 has 45 base sight which enables it to spot mediums for itself without being fired back on. If the JP4 target are light and mediums it should not be more than they do. In: COH2 Balance