I personally think that even if the current situation isn't ideal, it's better than the heavy tank stalling meta that we've had over the last year. Particularly because heavy tank stalling allowed players who were (way) behind to have comebacks with techless call-ins, while the current heavy tank rush meta at least requires a good early and mid game performance to pull off. In addition to that I also believe (and hope) that some additional small adjustments to timing and performance will swing the current heavy tank meta in more of a healthier spot, without needing to radically change or revert anything.
Heavy tank stalling went out the window with introducing tech cost...CP change and AOE buffs is what creates the issues.
The Command Panther wasn't picked for the same reason the stock Panther wasn't picked.
Neither vehicle is going to be able to kill the IS-2 because it'll be supported. Both are able to to hold it back.
Faced with a choice between the two, are you going to pick the tank that can keep up with the IS-2 in manpower bleed or the one that can't?
And that bring it back to the point that the rest of the OKW can not inflict enough bleed especially to the & men conscripts so they have to relay on the Tiger to do both. Deal with IS-2 and inflict bleed to other targets.
And that brings back to my other point, that in order to fix the "diversity issue" of Penal use conscripts where buffed and they are now OP.
Imo one should also start to consider apart from timing if the new AOE profiles are simply too good for the Super heavies and if the units have been over buffed.
Or even if the problem in 3vs3 and above did not originate from the poor performance of the Super heavies but from OP performance of their counter the Tds.
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On the command panther, i can, in general, agree that if it doesnt perform as well in the AT role as the tiger there is some thinking to be done. That said, its cheaper than the tiger, will come at a lower cp than the tiger (cp lowering confirmed, pending final approval), is more mobile than the tiger, comes with a vet 0 permanent commander aura, has more range than the tiger, and has mark target (which does likely mean it performs better against the is2 than the tiger does). I imagine the tigers performance against the is2 isnt what puts it over the command panther, its just another factor that puts GO over spec ops, considering that the tiger also mauls infantry. 200 fuel to counter the is2 and get some scouting, or 230 fuel to counter the is2 and everything else the opponent likely has.
On the panthers role. Its actually a bit more of a generalist AT vehicle (great absolute performance at short, medium, and long) with its main advantage being that it can actively hunt for vehicles and chase them down to find and secure kills. It does best when it can spring on tanks and TDs that are weaker than it...but the IS2 is not one such vehicle. So when I consider the panther vs is2, and tiger vs is2 matchups, this dorsnt sound particularly alarming. This isnt the panthers ideal matchup or use case.
I think you missed my point.
According to the "correct" stat C.Panther is at least as good (if not better) as Tiger with dealing IS-2 yet it was not picked a single time and that is an indication that current problem in the OKW Soviet match up is not simply the IS-2.
I would guess that T-70 and 7men conscripts are also issues.
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If I'm calculating it somewhat correctly, the Tiger I has a ~45s TTK while the Panther has a 54s TTK, against an IS-2 at 40-50 range, counting from the first shot. Disregarding accuracy because scatter shots are too unpredictable to quantify.
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And I have simply that if this is the cases that demonstrates a problem in the units design since the all around Tiger excel over the specialized C.P in its role even in pure numbers.
As for the Aura of the C.Pan, it is not that great in 1vs1 because one can not afford many vehicles to benefit from it. The funny thing is that Tiger also has an aura but I doubt anyone actually used it game thus so much for "command Tiger" aspect of the unit.
GO having a higher win rate isnt a remotely useful stat. Its actually beyond useless.
An easy, possible explanation is that, by chance, more of the top players preferred GO and more of the lower seeded tournament players preferred luftwaffe. They could be the EXACT same power level, but if 1 extra top player prefers GO and, say, 2 extra low seed players prefers luftwaffe, I wouldnt be surprised at even a 30% win rate difference.
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Again I did not compared the Luft win rates with G.O. win rates. I compared G.O. win rates vs any other choice and there is noticeable (x129%) difference in those win rates.
To me that is an indication that G.O is Op compared to other OKW commanders which you do not seem to question yourself "I mean, I dont doubt that GO is stronger than luftwaffe" despite the fact that FJ have been one of most popular target for OP claim.
But my point was different, my point was OKW become so commander depend with Previously special OP and now G.O. dominating the pick that OKW faction performance can not be judged by the results since the faction can easily be carried by those commander for years.
There is no long run. For all we know, any patch could be the last. Which is why we can't go around radically changing things now, risk completely breaking it and have it in the game for the rest of its life.
For example Penals and Volks are not changed because even if they're not perfect they work well enough, and changing a faction's core line infantry has far reaching and unknown consequences we may never be able to deal with.
Then simply revert or partially revert the Heavy tank changes its the "safest" change...
And I feel the need to express here once more the gratitude to the mod team and everyone involved in trying to make the game better...
In a game where buffed riflemen and 7man uber cons rule the battlefield, you can’t nerf the mainlines on an already struggling faction.
Unless you’re ready to buff Spios and Obers in return, which nobody wants.
And you can not continue the circle of continue buffs. One should select a unit single units as the base line and balanced the rest according to that one.
The problem with MP44 VGs has to do with capability to fight effectively at all ranges making other OKW infatry pale by comparison. They should perform good at certain range or average in all.
7man conscripts are OP and and they need to be nerfed it is as simple as that. (or 7men conscripts are the base line and all other infantries need to be buffed in their late game)
.... We'll probably never know as right now I'm afraid it's too late to change it.
Imo that is not a good argument. The balance team seem has developed of mentality of "sticking to its guns" once they have decide on direction even when there plenty of proof that the direction is wrong and when it is clear that is easier to roll back some.
Classic example of that is Penal/ST44 VG and the insistence of continuing down that path ending up to have to power up the majority of infatry in the game instead of rolling back.
Even in this case of Super heavies the it seem that they are moving in wrong direction. Super heavies got a combination of major buff becoming available and becoming more lethal although the patche's target was to make "stalling for a heavy tank call-in too rewarding" and "certain heavy tanks came too late in team games"
Heavy tanks at 13 CPs came way too late for teamgames, where resources are inflated and CP gain is deflated. This meant that they arrived at a time when there were already 1-2 vet 2-3 TDs around per every enemy player, making them mostly unviable to use. Moving heavies back to 12 CPs may benefit 1v1s, but it would not benefit 3v3s and 4v4s.
So in order to make Super heavies more effective in 3vs3 and above ended up making heavy tank stalling worse. When in this case making TDs less effective and lowering the CP by 1 would actually give some breathing room for super heavies in 3vs3 and above.
Imo this is beyond who is right or wrong or what looks "easier" is about finding the best solutions even if in the sort run they look more difficult". In the long run better solution are proven to be easier.
Is say that's a decent implementation as well. Flexible but resource heavy so it's better to incorporate them in with Volks than replace them entirely. I still take issue with a 5 man dual Shrek squad but I'll admit it's not as big of an issue as I had thought it would be (in part because of the g43s I assume) but I still don't like it..
I do not agree the implementation is bad since they are allot less cost efficient than Penal because they are more expensive and about equal power. The unit is simply not cost efficient.
(That is partially have to do with Penals which should follow the same design as PF and start weaker but having an access to SVT as upgrade is one want to follow their current role)
And problems with that is that only need 1 to protect you from the flamer clown car that should actually is cheesy and should be removed as tactic vs OKW. The AT PZ are not really that great dealing with T-70.
I believe okw infantry needs a redesign making sturms more accessible and more flexible and most importantly having some of the power from volks moved over to allow for such a change. Volks have been the subject of "okw needs x so now volks have x" for too long and have overgrown their role to become rifles lite and are the cause of most of the okw related balance matchup issues imo including basicly all the infantry buffs Soviet have got since okw was released. Id soonerwe see some variation from volks solve all of OKW's problems with no effort or investments like we have now.
I agree with that and I post about the problem with ST44 VG repeatedly.
Its the knowledge that your weaknesses are covered. Fussies are designed to be worse than volks before upgrade, snare not withstanding so it's wiser to get volks but if you see a flame car you can have fussies in no time. Combine that peace of mind with a Tiger and you have a really easy pick for a commander.
The design might be ok but the implementation is bad, PF are weaker at start but become as good as Penals while having to invest a ton of munition on them.
Comparing them to a commander centered around arguably the most over performing infantry in the game certainly skews things though.
You take fussies out of grand offensive and it's still a decent commander, take falls out of their commander... Not so much. Fussies + tiger. You have the safety of fussies early game and the power of the tiger late game (plus all the other things like off the arty and what not)
I brought up the only other doctrinal infatry used in enough games. The comparison would be far worse if did with with JLI that where used 100% of the game their where available and above 3 times per game.
As for the flamer M3 that is simply cheesy tactics that should be removed. VG should have access to faust when the truck is built and not set up.
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