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The mechanism is stupid, the cost argument is irrelevant because it doesn't stop the mechanism to be stupid.
We put red smoke to allow players to counter-play off-map arty, off-map plane strike and still those abilities are much more expensive but there is no other counterplay than wiring/mining the entire map to counter this mechanism. So to deny a one click mechanism with huge impact you need to constantly micro your engineers to mine and wire every single building. Obviously all of this while your opponent don't and can focus on choke points combats.
Imo, you shouldn't be able to pop out building if your opponent have enough vision on it to see which units are inside. This would be a great limit to the ability. So you cannot pop out of a building next to a unit and destroy it just because there is absolutely no way for him to react in time. |
all these stuff are doctrinals, while soviets doctrinal tank are already heavies or at least late game and they got very erly light tanks where Ostheer have mostly late game tanks and only P4 is decent, Stug G is like a tank destroyer (despite the fact it's supposed to be assault gun not TD) and ostwind which is fairly weak
I don't think Relic will add any new stock units anytime soon and I'm pretty sure OP wanted it doctrinal. Only thing Relic did in the past is switching a doctrinal unit with a stock one.
So if we consider Ostheer lack of medium tank design that much impacting today with the meta evolution, which units could be swapped from stock to doctrinal to replace Stug-E or Puma and having it T2 unlocked after BP2.
I'll say Stug-G for the Puma. So Ostheer has access to a light armored unit countering fairly well Stuart/T76/Sherman and the Stug-G could take place in those doctrine with an increased CP requirement. |
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There is already a Stug infantry tank (don't remember its letter)
There is already the Puma to counter light/medium.
There is already the command tank to counter medium/infantry.
i understand the reason for asking new toys but not really the need of this one. |
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Don't you already have the Puma? Better than Stuart and available between T2 and T3? |
640 HP, good armor, best indirect fire, call-in, its fine ? 
It doesn't really change the fact that USF do shit after 15 minutes in teamgame. You can reduce the Calliope armor (and its price), people will still select it because the commander offer solution to most of the USF gameplay gaps.
There is one way to make it less used, nerf it to the ground because right now there is nothing except the pershing valuable past CP8 on USF doctrine that is usable in teamgame.
Nerf it to ground, nerf the pershing as well to make sure it is not the only last call-in/ability interesting past CP8 and there you'll have people playing all other commanders. |
its company of building in the early game, i prefer cap the rest of the map, and bring a mortar if its a key building
Not all factions have easy access to mortar. this is why you go building first with those factions. |
There's a difference between not having and the unit that is there being poor-mediocre. I doubt anyone wants the 25pdrs to suck just because they're non-doc indirect fire when they should be good as its the British forces only means of indirect-fire outside of doctrines and the mortar pit.
Even with an accuracy boost for the 222 for max range and moving, it's not a laser gun people claim it to be and I'd even live with no/lower bonus accuracy against infantry if it proves to be too much of a mini-luchs. What the 222 needs, however, is the ability to actually be a unit that can kite and be a soft counter to light armour with a tad bit more hp and MG responsiveness. Terrible head-on in most cases, but enough that it can at least threaten armour without coming into harms way.
Doing this would also open more diversity than the current meta of "hug-pak wall until tanks" as there's no reason for Ostheer to deploy the 222 in most cases other than as a reactionary response to other scout cars or if they want to play with map hack spotting scopes. It's not a mobile response to anything but the weakest infantry units and the M3.
But I'll stop and say the simplest thing to get the point across:
"More expensive, better performance. Make 222 a Scout Skirmisher."
We already see in this game that price isn't a performing counter to OP units. Buffing 222 will simply result in killing entirely USF/Sov T1 and any doctrinal light units they can field. With in addition making them on the backfoot where the 222 push and at the same time in trouble while attacking vs MG42 locking territories.
222 is like any other scout car: past 5 minutes if they are still alive their role is to scout and protect your flank from lone caper squads.
Now if you consider scout cars as a hole need a better role mid-late game, we can discuss it but I'm not sure something good will came from it without changing too much of the general gameplay. |
Am I the only one that is annoyed (despite the AEC), that every game right now is rushing the first unit to a near building because units in buildings (especially UKF Infantry Sections) are extremely durable and there is no reliable way to get them out as Axis?
No you're not.  |
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This thread is retarded.
Can someone details me the usual Top200 4vs4 Ostheer and OKW BO? Something like:
Ostheer
x2 HMG42
x2 mortar
x2 pack
somewhere in the middle a couple of bunkers and mine fields
Stale and wait till Pwerfer x2 or x3
+ doctrinal Elephant or LeH or command tank
OKW
x1 Kubel
x2 Sturm
XXXX Volks
x1 or x2 ISG
X panthers
KT + doctrinal Jag or Sturmtiger, sometime a pak43 as well.
Axis 4vs4 Top player gameplay is full def into late game rocket arty supported by super heavies. It is not really difficult to understand USF only has Calliope to break this meta.
Have you even try to play USF without it, and I mean without a single calliope in the map? It is simple: rush, cheese, all-in all you have in the 10 first minutes or you lose. I know that, I don't have the calliope.
The calliope would be much less see if Axis meta weren't that impossible to counter play on the long run without Calliopes.
I mean, even Katys aren't enough in most of cases. |
The main issue here isn't how good or bad the 222 is necessarily. Its the fact that UNLIKE EVERY OTHER FACTION, ost has no light tanks at all. T70, Stuart, AEC, Luchs, ost has none of these. Miragefla is proposing we give ostheer that in the form of abuffed changed (due to cost adjustment don't forget) 222.
Unlikely other factions, Sov and USF don't have stock heavy tanks
Unlikely other factions, OKW doesn't have stock HMG
Unlikely other factions USF and brit don't have stock rocket arty
etc...
See what I mean? |
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