Login

russian armor

Vetted 7 man conscripts vs vetted lmg grens..

PAGES (8)down
6 Oct 2019, 10:02 AM
#141
avatar of Freestyler1992

Posts: 88



That applies to all factions equally.

No single faction can pull a magical comeback without opponent making a mistake while you start to play flawless.


Hm I agree and also don't agree. Yes, coming back is hard, but certain factions lend far better to it than others. I find it way harder to come back with Ostheer than for example Soviets. I find it way easier to come back with OKW than with Ostheer. I find it way harder to come back as brits than I find it to come back as for example USF. My mates are in agreement with this too. I don't think I am the only who feels this way...
6 Oct 2019, 10:25 AM
#142
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1159



Hm I agree and also don't agree. Yes, coming back is hard, but certain factions lend far better to it than others. I find it way harder to come back with Ostheer than for example Soviets. I find it way easier to come back with OKW than with Ostheer. I find it way harder to come back as brits than I find it to come back as for example USF. My mates are in agreement with this too. I don't think I am the only who feels this way...


You're not the only one :)
6 Oct 2019, 11:06 AM
#143
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 473



Maxim HMG
Arc of fire increased from 60 degrees to 90 degrees (other MGs have 90-120 degrees)
* Setup time from 2 to 3 (other MGs have 3)
* Burst duration from 2.25 to 4.5
* Damage reduced from 4 to 3 (the DPS of the Maxim remains the same)
* Tracking speed from 35 to 28
* Reinforcement cost from 15 to 20
* Sprint removed from Vet1
* Sustained fire ability added at Vet1

So, what is the meaning of this ?



I stand corrected. My apologies.
6 Oct 2019, 11:40 AM
#144
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4343

the maxim has faster pack down not pack up
6 Oct 2019, 12:41 PM
#145
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1159


Guards snare requires a 75mu upgrade to unlock.


Well, you pay for 2 lmgs which make the unit both ai and at more than capable. You get hit the dirt version with longer range. All this plus the unit comes with free at rifles. And, of course, you get button on top of that. The unit is of course 6 men and has good grenades. How does that compare to any ostheer upgrades?
6 Oct 2019, 13:41 PM
#146
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1159

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Oct 2019, 08:16 AMMaret

Penals AT satchels good, but you must sacrifice 2 mens on it and lose almost 30% of squad AI power.


The squad after the ugrade has 4 models with rifles and 2 with ptrs which also deal some dmg to inf. - they are still similarily powerful to grens when it comes to AI performance. They also get the at satchel.

Also when you upgrade panzergrens with shrecks you pay 100muni and lose 50% of ai and you don't get the snare.

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Oct 2019, 08:16 AMMaret

Also penals don't have sprint and AT-satchel need usage or: sightblockers or very bad play from axis player.


But the point is that you have it. Whether you use it or is another story. The sole fact that they have them means ostheer vehicles can't dive to finish off crippled tanks, for example, which gives you an edge. It is so much more powerful than you realise it. Also in real life scenarios there are many snared vehicles around. With ptrs penal around they won't limp back to safety as will be satcheled or just ptrs executed.

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Oct 2019, 08:16 AMMaret

Guards have "free" AT, but it good only against light armor, you can't fight with PTRS rifles against ostwind or P4. OST have various docs with panzer smoke that completely turn off AT satchels and guards slow down ability.


But you are unique to get them for free. Also ost does not have armoured light vehicles so it is more htan enough against them - they just stop any light vehicle play from ost for free. Each faction has doctrines and Soviets have some of the most powerful both for 1v1 or larger formats. The point stands that there are a lot of powerful AT option on Soviet infantry while ost has only shrecks or panzerfaust. The thread is about grens vs cons. Cons have a lot of useful abilities including the most powerful game at tank combo to hoorah and snare. Additionally they build sandbags, merge (very potent), they are 6 or (now) can be 7 members, and also have tripwire. They pay less per model to reinforce. Grens are clearly inferior in all these aspects.


jump backJump back to quoted post5 Oct 2019, 08:16 AMMaret

Only USF have crew repairs, not all allies. SU have in docs.
Each faction have different design - OST don't have light tanks, but have weapon upgrades without need to pay for sidetech.


You have more upgrades without sidetetechs than ost (I gave you an example of penals). You can still have tier 2 with penals and canscripts. You don't need to build any structure to have them. And the sidetech for cons is super cheap now. It is cheaper than researching battlephases for ost. Also you need to sidetech to have grens or to have snares. You must research battlephases but if you don't build tier 1 or tier 2 structure you don't get the snare. It shuts off the possibility of going straight to tier 3 researching only battlephases. It happens on many skill levels that ost players don't have any snare because they skip tier 1 or tier 2 building. Even when you use call in jager from a dctrine you won't have a snare witgout one of those buildings.

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Oct 2019, 08:16 AMMaret

OST have one of the best mg in game in T0 with AP bullets in vet1. You even could upgrade pgrens with shrecks and got very powerfyll AT squad (if you use doc with OST clowncar, you even could play "ost shreck mini-bus"). OST have stun abilities in stug and in pak40, that as AT much better than UKF and SU ATG. Only USF ATG could be better. And teller mines that instakill any light vehicle.
You still think that OST have worse AT abilities than allies? Against light vehicles on early-mid game you have much than enough AT abilities.


This is the most difficult part to respond to. Everything you write here is just repeating what most allied fanboys say. Sadly, there is very little factual information here.

1. MG42 is just an mg with slow repositiong times and poor traverse speed. DShk or maxim are much more deadly to 4 men ostheer squads than mg42 is to Soviet units.
2. Pzgrens is the least cost efficient AT infantry in game. The are only 4 men and are expensive to reinforce and buy. Their upgrade is very expensive and they require more tech than other AT infantry squads. Tanks' guns easily wipe them and it is a high risk unit. They get suppressed almost instantly. They are used only because ost can't equip shrecks on any other squad. The also don't have a snare so vehicles can make them dance and unable to shoot their shrecks. Their rate of shreck fire is rather slow. I wish ost could equip pios with a shreck. If it was possible players wouldn't waste them as a shreck squad.
3. The clown car can be used by any faction - they just don't do that with at weapons, as it is too risky at that stage of the game. The fact that ost players put an expensive squad into a vehicle like htat is simply because they have very few other at options. They don't want them to get pinned. Allies just don't have to do that as they have sturdy light vehicles which are cheaper than gre+halftrack combo and do this role better.
4. Stun abilities used to be good. Now they are rather laughable. SU 85 with its self spotting is a real beast here being able to engage all armour. Zis is just better imo than pak as it can fend off infantry and mgs on its own. Nowadays paks don't penetrate heavy soviet of ukf tanks as reliably as they used to. It doesn't deal that much damage to heavies, either. Pak used to be a beast before armour and health was upgraded on many Sov or UKF tanks. Its narrow arc can also be problematic when dealing with light vehicles. It is just another at gun (best is usf at gun imo with its penetration and sight abilities).
5. Teller mines are just too often quoted as so powerful. Just use sweepers on Soviet cheap engineers and make ostheer player lose 50 munitions. It is so much better to have a regular mine that will destroy the engine or kill models on infantry squads. Much more reliable and universal to use.
6. Yes I still think that Soviets have many more AT options than ostheer.

(BTW - I really know how to play both these factions and I somehow feel you should try playing ostheer a bit more to see those differebnces for yourself).
PAGES (8)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • Oberkommando West flag |Zeva| The Angry Dutchman
  • U.S. Forces flag Nicko
uploaded by Stijndee

Board Info

127 users are online: 6 members and 121 guests
Dappy, JulianSnow, Yukiko, Vipper, 3camilae941ya2, Protos Angelus
85 posts in the last 24h
611 posts in the last week
3057 posts in the last month
Registered members: 27462
Welcome our newest member, 3camilae941ya2
Most online: 1221 users on 25 Feb 2020, 12:03 PM