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Vetted 7 man conscripts vs vetted lmg grens..

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2 Oct 2019, 21:06 PM
#81
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1363 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Oct 2019, 20:37 PMspajn


Tech costs has nothing to do with MP drain from replacements when talking about army composition. Ostheers inablity to rely on a mainline infantry makes them into a house of cards faction... if you doing well you are doing really well but one good flank or lucky grenade/mortar can wreck your army so fast no other faction can compare.


Let me put it another way: I predict USF's early game will get downtuned a bit next patch. Adding cheaper Grenadier reinforcement on top of that would likely cause imbalance in favor of Ostheer.

Against Soviets the Grenadier bleed becomes quite apparent in the mid/late game, but that's rather because the 7 men upgrade makes Conscripts too efficient IMO (lower reinforcement on top of 30-35% more dps and already good veterancy). It's a seperate issue.

Just don't rely too much on Grenadiers and you should be fine, even this patch. Watch players like Jove as an example. He regularly gets 2 Panzergrenadiers to back up his Grenadier builds and makes excellent use of them.
2 Oct 2019, 21:10 PM
#82
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1191



Let me put it another way: I predict USF's early game will get downtuned a bit next patch. Adding cheaper Grenadier reinforcement on top of that would likely cause imbalance in favor of Ostheer.

Against Soviets the Grenadier bleed becomes quite apparent in the mid/late game, but that's rather because the 7 men upgrade makes Conscripts too efficient IMO (lower reinforcement on top of 30-35% more dps and already good veterancy). It's a seperate issue.

Just don't rely too much on Grenadiers and you should be fine, even this patch. Watch players like Jove as an example. He regularly gets 2 Panzergrenadiers to back up his Grenadier builds and makes excellent use of them.


Brave ost players will survive everthing that is thrown at them.
2 Oct 2019, 21:19 PM
#83
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1363 | Subs: 3



Brave ost players will survive everthing that is thrown at them.


Agreed, Ostheer can adapt and survive to almost any meta. Their flexibility is what makes them my favorite faction.
2 Oct 2019, 21:27 PM
#84
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1191



Agreed, Ostheer can adapt and survive to almost any meta. Their flexibility is what makes them my favorite faction.


I'm afraid though that because of all those allied only focused players soon allies may have noone to play against.
2 Oct 2019, 21:48 PM
#85
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4233 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Oct 2019, 19:29 PMgbem
If conscripts are support... and maxims are support aswell... then what the hell are they supporting in a T2 core build?

Supporting the enemy via using a trash tier.... Tier
3 Oct 2019, 09:38 AM
#86
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341



I'm afraid though that because of all those allied only focused players soon allies may have noone to play against.


The conscript/grenadier balance is fine... what makes ost difficult is the lack of a "penal battalion" analog that allows it to crutch against rifles... the real solution here isnt to buff grens but to re nerf rifles and penals
3 Oct 2019, 09:45 AM
#87
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1191

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Oct 2019, 09:38 AMgbem


The conscript/grenadier balance is fine... what makes ost difficult is the lack of a "penal battalion" analog that allows it to crutch against rifles... the real solution here isnt to buff grens but to re nerf rifles and penals


I guess you're right here (especially the fact that penals are still quite potent against ost infantry having ugraded ptrs)
3 Oct 2019, 09:53 AM
#88
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

ohh no they lose potency when upgraded with the PTRS... but they have the meme ability to rape elefants tigers jagdtigers and king tigers really quickly when paired with a T-34...
3 Oct 2019, 11:04 AM
#89
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15630 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Oct 2019, 09:38 AMgbem


The conscript/grenadier balance is fine... what makes ost difficult is the lack of a "penal battalion" analog that allows it to crutch against rifles... the real solution here isnt to buff grens but to re nerf rifles and penals

You do that and then again OKW will stomp these two.
The solution isn't to buff or nerf anything, the solution, for ost, is to stop pretending they are OKW and use team weapons and/or snipers.
3 Oct 2019, 11:29 AM
#90
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341


You do that and then again OKW will stomp these two.
The solution isn't to buff or nerf anything, the solution, for ost, is to stop pretending they are OKW and use team weapons and/or snipers.


you can add volks into the list of problems aswell... they need to lose the sandbag imo...
3 Oct 2019, 12:03 PM
#91
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4233 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Oct 2019, 09:53 AMgbem
ohh no they lose potency when upgraded with the PTRS... but they have the meme ability to rape elefants tigers jagdtigers and king tigers really quickly when paired with a T-34...

Combined arms op relic pls nerf
3 Oct 2019, 13:21 PM
#92
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 2865

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Oct 2019, 09:38 AMgbem


The conscript/grenadier balance is fine... what makes ost difficult is the lack of a "penal battalion" analog that allows it to crutch against rifles... the real solution here isnt to buff grens but to re nerf rifles and penals


Only way a penal nerf is acceptable is if it’s accompanied by a significant conscript buff.
3 Oct 2019, 14:45 PM
#93
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 400



Only way a penal nerf is acceptable is if it’s accompanied by a significant conscript buff.


Actually it can be accomplished by buffing maxim but adjusting its set/pack times like other mgs.
3 Oct 2019, 15:06 PM
#94
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8711 | Subs: 1



Only way a penal nerf is acceptable is if it’s accompanied by a significant conscript buff.

Not really the only thing needed is VG's ST44 redesign/nerf or replacement with the MP-40.
3 Oct 2019, 15:41 PM
#95
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 2865

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Oct 2019, 14:45 PMJilet


Actually it can be accomplished by buffing maxim but adjusting its set/pack times like other mgs.


No thanks, after the rifles buff there is no excuse for not buffing conscripts in case of a penals nerf, unless the maxim buff makes it into an mg42.

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Oct 2019, 15:06 PMVipper

Not really the only thing needed is VG's ST44 redesign/nerf or replacement with the MP-40.


I get the whole nerf everything thing you advocate, but I’m skeptical as to how willing the balance team is to do that. They’ve mostly been buffing units so far.
3 Oct 2019, 15:45 PM
#96
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 400


No thanks, after the rifles buff there is no excuse for not buffing conscripts in case of a penals nerf, unless the maxim buff makes it into an mg42.


Then they need the merge go away. What is holding cons back in combat is their ability to merge and save other squads on the field. As absurd as it sounds it can be one of the best abilities in the game.
3 Oct 2019, 15:52 PM
#97
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 2865

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Oct 2019, 15:45 PMJilet


Then they need the merge go away. What is holding cons back in combat is their ability to merge and save other squads on the field. As absurd as it sounds it can be one of the best abilities in the game.


I’d trade merge for the 30% rate of fire from 7 man cons to be at vet 0 for stock cons, as well as merge of molotov and at nade sidetech for the cost of 1.
3 Oct 2019, 15:55 PM
#98
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 400



I’d trade merge for the 30% rate of fire from 7 man cons to be at vet 0 for stock cons, as well as merge of molotov and at nade sidetech for the cost of 1.


*Crying grenadier noises*
3 Oct 2019, 16:04 PM
#99
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2535 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Oct 2019, 14:45 PMJilet


Actually it can be accomplished by buffing maxim but adjusting its set/pack times like other mgs.


It's setup time is actually the same as MG42/34/Vickers. Only the pack up time is faster, so already halfway there
3 Oct 2019, 16:21 PM
#100
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 400



It's setup time is actually the same as MG42/34/Vickers. Only the pack up time is faster, so already halfway there


Haven't noticed that.Thx for the info anyways.
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