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How are Infantrysections since patch?

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How are Infantrysections?
Option Distribution Votes
13%
37%
40%
10%
Total votes: 120
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
21 Sep 2019, 16:16 PM
#1
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4779 | Subs: 14

I want to hear and see how the people think about the new IS. Are you fine and able to play with them?
Not taling about that you make a blob and a move around. If that fails, that is intended! The question is, how good are they, when they are now staying in cover.
21 Sep 2019, 16:24 PM
#2
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 461

So is this part of a general investigation that also looks at replays and tables, or are you gonna just base a decision on this poll?
21 Sep 2019, 16:27 PM
#3
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4779 | Subs: 14

So is this part of a general investigation that also looks at replays and tables, or are you gonna just base a decision on this poll?


Well one forum poll will not decide it alone. But it can be an indicator.
Also from playing this game self and other peoples opionens.
21 Sep 2019, 16:28 PM
#4
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 461

Fair.

What’s your personal opinion on sectons Sturmpanther?
21 Sep 2019, 16:29 PM
#5
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4779 | Subs: 14

Fair.

What’s your personal opinion on sectons Sturmpanther?


I played now many teamgames with brits. And seems like they are losing even when staying in cover.
As said i don#t want that IS are very strong without cover. But in cover they should be strong.
So i am for small buff in cover.
21 Sep 2019, 16:44 PM
#6
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1374

Why cant we go for minor buff irrelevant of cover?
21 Sep 2019, 16:44 PM
#7
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4779 | Subs: 14

Why cant we go for minor buff irrelevant of cover?


You think this is needed?
21 Sep 2019, 16:46 PM
#8
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1374

Yes should be a poll option. I think they need minor a buff but not cover related.
21 Sep 2019, 16:48 PM
#9
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 166 | Subs: 1

Make them like grens and remove the stupid cover gimmick.
21 Sep 2019, 16:50 PM
#10
avatar of elnur009

Posts: 29

agree about stupidity of cover related buffs, it makes brit faction more boring than it's already
maybe give them grenadier stats and little more dps at long range, cost 260/270 mp
21 Sep 2019, 17:09 PM
#11
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 425

For clarity, the poll should be split into two questions.
1. IS should get strong/slight buff/nerf or keep as it is
2. Buff/nerf should be applied out of cover/in cover/both.


Can't contribute much on the topic since I did not play much in smaller modes lately
21 Sep 2019, 17:53 PM
#12
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 461

My money would be on reworking Sections entirely. I absolutely hate their design.

Remove their cover nonsense. Make them a standard 5man squad in the style of 5man grens and with similar combat capabilities and no weapon slots. Either medkit without aoe or pyrotechnics with bundle grenade and flare for base arty. 300mp cost plus 29mp reinforce. No bolster or nades means earlier T1 with sappers and snipers.
21 Sep 2019, 18:21 PM
#13
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 310

I think that poll should have been about Vickers.
21 Sep 2019, 18:52 PM
#14
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 58

My money would be on reworking Sections entirely. I absolutely hate their design.

Remove their cover nonsense. Make them a standard 5man squad in the style of 5man grens and with similar combat capabilities and no weapon slots. Either medkit without aoe or pyrotechnics with bundle grenade and flare for base arty. 300mp cost plus 29mp reinforce. No bolster or nades means earlier T1 with sappers and snipers.


That's too radical for a Mainline infantry unit, for example same Penals that are 300MP are ANOTHER TYPE OF Mainline, not the ONLY ONE Mainline, meaning you're able to go for them or Conscripts, while Brits are unable to have something like that even with a Doctrine I recon, thus this wouldn't ever be possible as is too costly.

Also "cover nonsense" is what Brits are developed to be, they historically went for more WW1 styled war and their weapontry shows that, so it has to stay.
21 Sep 2019, 18:56 PM
#15
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3077

Make them like grens and remove the stupid cover gimmick.
+1

I know this is how brits were designed but the gimmicks are always split between not being good enough outside it and being too good in cover. Although I'm not sure how they could be balanced as a long range squad like OST/OKW but cost more without curb stomping both of the factions.
21 Sep 2019, 19:29 PM
#16
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 461



That's too radical for a Mainline infantry unit, for example same Penals that are 300MP are ANOTHER TYPE OF Mainline, not the ONLY ONE Mainline, meaning you're able to go for them or Conscripts, while Brits are unable to have something like that even with a Doctrine I recon, thus this wouldn't ever be possible as is too costly.

Also "cover nonsense" is what Brits are developed to be, they historically went for more WW1 styled war and their weapontry shows that, so it has to stay.


Riflemen are a 280mp 5 man squad. My proposal would make sections a 300mp 5 man squad. Huge difference apparently.

As for the British theme, this would be better represented using weapon profiles and moving DPS than cover bonuses.
21 Sep 2019, 19:48 PM
#17
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3009 | Subs: 1

i think IS are a hard duck BCAUSE of racks and bolster, not the cover mechanic. when you make it work for a 4 man squad, suddenly making that squad 25% better outright and then applying the buff tips them over the egde, tone it down becuase of 5 men and now its not great for 4 men. the bolster was...and awful idea from a balance stand point. the racks COULD work i suppose but they too complicate things.

my suggestion would be:
make bolster an upgrade path like flares and med kit
any upgrade takes 1 weapon slot and removes the cover mechanic

then you can have 4 man squads that are monsters, but fairly static and squishy
you can have 5 man tommies who are more mobile and tanky but less concentrated fire capable
you have medics (for whom the damn aoe should be looked at... it justifies blobbing imo, maybe a quick targeted heal? passive for the squad?)
and flares who can thunder down the base howis and scout. maybe look at giving them a light gammon or maybe the old commando smoke as well to make them more support?
then you also have doctrinal thompsons who bring their own thing to the table

edit: ass tommies should probably turn into proper call in infantry with their own tailored vet instead of being an upgrade path
21 Sep 2019, 20:44 PM
#18
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 58



Riflemen are a 280mp 5 man squad. My proposal would make sections a 300mp 5 man squad. Huge difference apparently.

As for the British theme, this would be better represented using weapon profiles and moving DPS than cover bonuses.

300MP for a SINGLE MAINLINE UNIT FOR THE ENTIRE FACTION is still too much no matter how many men it will have, even 8 for fuck's sake. Once there is a cheaper type, you can do that to IS, but IS is the only Mainline, thus it's a huge NO from a balance standpoint.

The British Theme is about staying in Cover and firing from it, doing massive damage but being vulnerable to artillery as same Grens are, for example, and that's why Brits have the Cover bonus, Emplacement, such a good MG and ATG and more and more...
Also their PIAT is a Zooka that doesn't fire straight but from an angle, telling you it can be fired really effectively from cover, again, proving the WW1 theme warfare point.
21 Sep 2019, 20:52 PM
#19
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 440

I think is sections are alright, but it would help if they had camandos or something to cover their ass. Brits can't hide behind cover against leigs,snipers, or mortars.
21 Sep 2019, 20:59 PM
#20
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 472

They're in a pretty good place right now. Long range DPS with double brens might be slightly on the strong side (when blobbed...), but it's in a good enough place where I'm impartial to a nerf (maybe a ~10% nerf at long?).


That said, I think there's still room for improvement, but not without a serious redesign, as others have said. They're just such a bizarre unit with so many 'unusual' abilities. Ideally, this is what I would like to see, in terms of a redesign:

  • The Bolster upgrade at HQ unlocks a cheap (30 muni?) PER SQUAD upgrade, which takes the place of the "medical supplies" upgrade (which would be removed entirely, as explained below). This would be similar to the Gren "veteran squad leader", where taking the upgrade fills a weapon slot (so only 1 bren on 5 model squads). This also solves the "free model on new squads" issue, since new squads would spawn at 4 models, and you'd need to reinforce to get the 5th one. If needed, a slight RA bonus could be given by this upgrade, to further emphasize the "dps vs. hp" trade-off.

  • The "Medical Supplies" upgrade should be removed and replaced with an HQ Aura (150mp, 50muni?). Right now you can have giant, 5 man, 2x bren, AoE-healing blobs; this is just too much. Removing Medical Supplies would bring the IS more in line with every other infantry unit, and would make retreating to base much more important. That said, self-healing is still really important in late-game, so I would suggest giving the IS a self-healing vet ability, similar to grens/Volks, once they hit vet 3.

  • Remove cover bonuses. It was an interesting idea, but it's just not fun for either side. It forces UKF players to play in either a very static manner, or as a giant bren blob when moving. Re-balance the unit so that the out-of-cover power is higher, but the in-cover power is lower.

  • Reduce "HQ Arty" flare throw range when suppressed. Currently it's 30m when not suppressed and 20m when suppressed; which is as far as normal grenades when not suppressed. I would bring this down to 15m, inline with other grenades when suppressed. This would make MG positioning/focus firing more important for axis, while also increasing the importance of smoke/flanking for UKF. Considering that the ability does much more damage than a grenade, I think this is a fair change.
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