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Fallschirmjäger is very OP!

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16 Sep 2019, 14:47 PM
#161
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 91

Also i understand falls were buffed in their performance but why was their price reduced? These double buffs is just unexplainable. Its like as if i am pumping out shocks at 320 mp.
16 Sep 2019, 14:54 PM
#162
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 5983 | Subs: 1

Shock troops with For mother Russia have around 104 damage at 10 and 42 at 15.
16 Sep 2019, 15:11 PM
#163
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 108



Check dps at various ranges before you compare shock on FMR and falls with VA pls.

If you get rid of the sprint in combat (which you should) there will be little difference in the way shock preform with and without FMR as they don't do much beyond cqb anyways.
Falls are great at all ranges


Perhaps swapping VA to a durability buff instead of an accuracy one might help make attacking with falls better but not overbearing. Their design is supposed to be glass cannon so making them a bit tougher instead of cannonier might be the way forward

Durability buff VA sounds good. Did you think about the means of buff application? RA buff would help them avoid suppression so imho it's a no-go as it would continue to promote A-move MG assault blobs. Damage reduction would also work efficiently for blobs as they wouldn't be as punished by Katy barrages or nades. One last way that I can think of to improve the survivability is by armour application, but I don't know if that affects suppression or not and thus MG assaults. It would definitely make them more survivable in firefights, but not enough to promote blobbing as that would still be countered by indirect fire and barrages. Global accuracy buff abilities are problematic and I think that all should be altered.

I'm happy that balance team realised that the multitude of buffs that affected Falls was possibly too many and they are planning to revert some of them, especially as Sander said he would rather underadjust than overdo the game changes.
16 Sep 2019, 15:17 PM
#164
avatar of griezell

Posts: 118

u know what u said makes no sense right ? i do agree in increasing the price but their performance is below double bren commando

and double bren commando have been int he game since 2 years, nobody used them, now we have a bit worse and a bit cheaper 4 men double bren commando they are now op ?


well commandos are harder to get and if u fly them in its like 540 . if u got the officer with it they cost 350 and double brenn is like 90 ammo and have to pick them up in base. so
16 Sep 2019, 15:23 PM
#165
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3803



well commandos are harder to get and if u fly them in its like 540 . if u got the officer with it they cost 350 and double brenn is like 90 ammo and have to pick them up in base. so
that's why i said just put the cpst to 340 (like they did) and increase the price to 80 (2 bren are 90 mun), they lose to them at all ranges and are not 5 men

btw they cost 390 with glider, and that's a reinforce bunker (150 mp and 60 mun)
16 Sep 2019, 15:24 PM
#166
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 498



Check dps at various ranges before you compare shock on FMR and falls with VA pls.

If you get rid of the sprint in combat (which you should) there will be little difference in the way shock preform with and without FMR as they don't do much beyond cqb anyways.
Falls are great at all ranges


Perhaps swapping VA to a durability buff instead of an accuracy one might help make attacking with falls better but not overbearing. Their design is supposed to be glass cannon so making them a bit tougher instead of cannonier might be the way forward

Well,shocks dont have the range of falls but are freakishly durable. What bothers me the most with shocks is the mid range buff (last winter patch) that allows them to wipe retreating squads too easily. The same is true for falls? Great please nerf both units.

Your idea of va is interesting.Maybe we should simply replace va with defense of the motherland from overwatch. That would solve some issues.
aaa
16 Sep 2019, 15:48 PM
#167
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1433

I would take pgrens over shocks any map. Pgrens >> shocks.

They are sort of one time use - charge and retreat. They cant do normal fights cover vs cover which pgrens do well.

That is with being most expesnsive unit in game. Like 30% more expensive than pgrens.

Why not increase their vision to see infantry and mgs before they supress like some other units like sniper
16 Sep 2019, 15:52 PM
#168
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 472

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 15:48 PMaaa
I would take pgrens over shocks any map. Pgrens >> shocks.

They are sort of one time use - charge and retreat. They cant do normal fights cover vs cover which pgrens do well.

That is with being most expesnsive unit in game. Like 30% more expensive than pgrens.


If you lose to Pgrens with shocks, you’re using them wrong.
16 Sep 2019, 16:12 PM
#169
avatar of griezell

Posts: 118

that's why i said just put the cpst to 340 (like they did) and increase the price to 80 (2 bren are 90 mun), they lose to them at all ranges and are not 5 men

btw they cost 390 with glider, and that's a reinforce bunker (150 mp and 60 mun)


and al the utillaty they got over commandos then? foust, bundle and smoke ?
16 Sep 2019, 16:13 PM
#170
avatar of griezell

Posts: 118



and al the utillaty they got over commandos then? foust, bundle and smoke ?



also glider i mean its not hard to spot and takes tiem to land. the para drop from falls is like 5 times faster
16 Sep 2019, 16:29 PM
#171
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6143 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 14:54 PMVipper
Shock troops with For mother Russia have around 104 damage at 10 and 42 at 15.


Do you have a DPS spreadsheet for new Shock values?

As i said before, you can't do more DPS if your accuracy values are over 100%. You can benefit by been able to do THAT amount of dmg against target which have RA or benefit from cover.

For ex:
Shocks vet 3 at 10> ranges don't benefit from FMR at all. They already have over 100%.
Fighting vet 3 Volks (RA 0.77) they would benefit equally from both a 25% or 50%.


Durability buff VA sounds good. Did you think about the means of buff application? RA buff would help them avoid suppression so imho it's a no-go as it would continue to promote A-move MG assault blobs. Damage reduction would also work efficiently for blobs as they wouldn't be as punished by Katy barrages or nades. One last way that I can think of to improve the survivability is by armour application, but I don't know if that affects suppression or not and thus MG assaults. It would definitely make them more survivable in firefights, but not enough to promote blobbing as that would still be countered by indirect fire and barrages. Global accuracy buff abilities are problematic and I think that all should be altered.

I'm happy that balance team realised that the multitude of buffs that affected Falls was possibly too many and they are planning to revert some of them, especially as Sander said he would rather underadjust than overdo the game changes.


1- I don't think we have "armor" on units applied outside of Shocks. This is mostly a visually aspect. Mechanic wise it could work to keep same AoE values.
2- Accuracy doesn't matter when you are trying to suppress a single unit.
3- Accuracy matters when you try to "splash" that suppression to nearby units.

that's why i said just put the cpst to 340 (like they did) and increase the price to 80 (2 bren are 90 mun), they lose to them at all ranges and are not 5 men

btw they cost 390 with glider, and that's a reinforce bunker (150 mp and 60 mun)


Who the hell uses reinforce bunkers lol. I don't remember, but can you repair the glider now ?
16 Sep 2019, 16:36 PM
#172
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 374

I have a proposed rework for this unit in a new thread here: https://www.coh2.org/topic/97853/the-fallschirmjäger-fix

Turning them from a glass cannon with high DPS at all ranges into a more durable utility unit with an MP-40 upgrade for short-range ambush DPS.
16 Sep 2019, 17:01 PM
#173
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3803



and al the utillaty they got over commandos then? foust, bundle and smoke ?
both have smoke is different than the other , commando have gammon and demolition, + can equip piat for behind the line snipes

+ commando start with moving camo
16 Sep 2019, 17:22 PM
#174
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 311

I have a proposed rework for this unit in a new thread here: https://www.coh2.org/topic/97853/the-fallschirmjäger-fix

Turning them from a glass cannon with high DPS at all ranges into a more durable utility unit with an MP-40 upgrade for short-range ambush DPS.


I think removing the FG42 (IMO their signature) will be bad but giving it the Stormtrooper MP40 or PGren STG44 weapon profile with commando/stormtrooper camo with a "not a nukenade" grenade + demo charge would be both unique and non problematic IMO.

I mean make them the OKW version of UKF commandos with 4 man.
16 Sep 2019, 17:25 PM
#175
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 374

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2019, 17:22 PMJilet


I think removing the FG42 (IMO their signature) will be bad but giving it the Stormtrooper MP40 or PGren STG44 weapon profile with commando/stormtrooper camo with a "not a nukenade" grenade + demo charge would be both unique and non problematic IMO.

I mean make them the OKW version of UKF commandos with 4 man.


I don't remove the FG-42. They spawn with 2 as usual. In fact, I even buff them a bit IMO. I just don't allow for four of them to be used, since that is where the balance issues start showing up.

They also become a 5-man squad.
16 Sep 2019, 17:28 PM
#176
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 311



I don't remove the FG-42. They spawn with 2 as usual. In fact, I even buff them a bit IMO. I just don't allow for four of them to be used, since that is where the balance issues start showing up.

They also become a 5-man squad.


Agreed on that. IMO the best way to put them in to the game is an elite VG replacement. Imagine the Falls 5 men 300MP aviable from T0 with 5 grenadier kar98s and have the option to upgrade to 2-3 FG42s as their upgrade.

(Maybe this can open the way of Pfusi being buffed and locked to 2-3 CP as elite infantry)
16 Sep 2019, 17:59 PM
#177
avatar of griezell

Posts: 118

both have smoke is different than the other , commando have gammon and demolition, + can equip piat for behind the line snipes

+ commando start with moving camo


gammon . i wont say its like a demo form penals but man is that easy to doge. also give commandos piats and they become as usles as.... sure you can try and micro al the way behind te lines dor some godo damage but the investment .. no to heavy and the demo is like 90 ammo its realy doesnt get much play. it might work in some maps with good overwatch buildings but its no where near close to what falls can do.
16 Sep 2019, 18:02 PM
#178
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3803



gammon . i wont say its like a demo form penals but man is that easy to doge. also give commandos piats and they become as usles as.... sure you can try and micro al the way behind te lines dor some godo damage but the investment .. no to heavy and the demo is like 90 ammo its realy doesnt get much play. it might work in some maps with good overwatch buildings but its no where near close to what falls can do.
lol gammon Bomb is a better bundle nade

And demo works really well to kill any stationary target
16 Sep 2019, 18:11 PM
#179
avatar of griezell

Posts: 118

lol gammon Bomb is a better bundle nade

And demo works really well to kill any stationary target





if it would destroy any deploys okw building then yes! but it doesnt. takes lot of time. units wil die fast when they place it if shot at .. its a niche thing.
16 Sep 2019, 18:21 PM
#180
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3803






if it would destroy any deploys okw building then yes! but it doesnt. takes lot of time. units wil die fast when they place it if shot at .. its a niche thing.
i found them useful to destroy howy and other team weapons
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