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Soviet September patch discussion

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1 Sep 2019, 17:58 PM
#521
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2019, 17:54 PMVipper

Lowering the range of flame grenade or moving to SP. Imo that can fix allot of issues with maxims.

Removing the ST44 upgrade from VG or replacing it with MP40 can also help conscripts allot.

Better designing T1 can also help allot, changes could include:
lowering price for Penal replacing their weapon and giving them SVTs as weapon upgrade, removing PTRS upgrade and introducing a AT squad with PTRS if there actually a need for it.


The first issue still means the maxim would be bad... and would have plenty of caveats

Penal changes would be neat at balancing things out but the maxim would still remain THE worst mg ingame
1 Sep 2019, 18:05 PM
#522
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2019, 17:58 PMgbem


The first issue still means the maxim would be bad... and would have plenty of caveats

Penal changes would be neat at balancing things out but the maxim would still remain THE worst mg ingame


Trying playing vs maxims without using flame grenades, you might get a different perspective.

In addition the maxim would be there to support conscript who would be less pressed without the ST44 and not to operate independently.
1 Sep 2019, 18:07 PM
#523
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

I mean theyre still worse than literally every other mg... that just addresses the main cause of wipes but not the inherent problems of the maxim

I mean they could reduce its setup time further reduce its suppression and give it say x1.5 vickers dps... that ways it becomes an assault mg as it was intended to be...
1 Sep 2019, 18:24 PM
#524
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2019, 14:25 PMVipper

Lowering the price of T2 will not make people go for T2 builts. It will simply allow them to back tech making T1 even more attractive. They will still have easy access to PTRS to deal with light and now easier access to ATG if the enemy rushes mediums tanks.

T1 is currently superior offering too much for a small cost.

It is as simply as that.


I agree with t2 being cheaper just makes it easier to backtech. And t1 having a big bang for low cost.

But as long as the 2/3 of the units t2 provides remain lackluster, the zis while good also has no use so early on. T2 will not be a appealing opening tier.
So all you can build then is utility units that support support units. The specilized units of axis will be more then a match for that.
One can also depend on call in inf such as guards and shocks like in the pre penal buff era.

Imo penals do not deserve to have side tech as long as cons require so many recources in side tech esp in this patch and still depend a great deal on doctrines just to be on par.
The sacthal and at satchel have enough drawbacks to be balanced as they are now imo.

1 Sep 2019, 18:43 PM
#525
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



I agree with t2 being cheaper just makes it easier to backtech. And t1 having a big bang for low cost.

But as long as the 2/3 of the units t2 provides remain lackluster, the zis while good also has no use so early on. T2 will not be a appealing opening tier.
So all you can build then is utility units that support support units. The specilized units of axis will be more then a match for that.
One can also depend on call in inf such as guards and shocks like in the pre penal buff era.

Imo penals do not deserve to have side tech as long as cons require so many recources in side tech esp in this patch and still depend a great deal on doctrines just to be on par.
The sacthal and at satchel have enough drawbacks to be balanced as they are now imo.


This is a wider problem and just focused on Soviets. Infantry power level has increased so much that building support weapon is almost not worth it. Ostheer are usually forced to built a HMG but UKF are better off not building one. That leaves the USF HMGs and that has more to do with "free" officer than anything else.

Point here is that Maxim issues has more to do with how easily VG counter it than anything else.

As for conscripts most of their issues also come from the St44 upgrade than anything else.
1 Sep 2019, 19:31 PM
#526
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2019, 18:43 PMVipper

This is a wider problem and just focused on Soviets. Infantry power level has increased so much that building support weapon is almost not worth it. Ostheer are usually forced to built a HMG but UKF are better off not building one. That leaves the USF HMGs and that has more to do with "free" officer than anything else.

Point here is that Maxim issues has more to do with how easily VG counter it than anything else.

As for conscripts most of their issues also come from the St44 upgrade than anything else.


I completly agree. They also dont want to touch volks really. 10 mp increase isent gonna do much. They will still remain a no brainer.
Nerfing or replacing the flame nade is imo a must. Maybe put it at vet 3 and remove/move selfheal to vet 4/5. Its not something a t0 unit for 250/260mp should have so relativly easy. The have enough healing already.

The mp40 replacing the stg is imo worth trying, i would also tie the flame nade to that upgrade or make it a vet ability like i wrote above.

Then cons can fight them and volks dont counter its counter so easely.

I also cant phathom why cons get 7 pop like all other main lines.
1 Sep 2019, 20:43 PM
#527
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Sep 2019, 17:54 PMVipper

Lowering the range of flame grenade or moving to SP. Imo that can fix allot of issues with maxims.

Removing the ST44 upgrade from VG or replacing it with MP40 can also help conscripts allot.

Better designing T1 can also help allot, changes could include:
lowering price for Penal replacing their weapon and giving them SVTs as weapon upgrade, removing PTRS upgrade and introducing a AT squad with PTRS if there actually a need for it.

I agree with all of those save for the last point. Penals can keep the PTRS, if it's a mutual upgrade to the svt (kinda like fussiliers)
2 Sep 2019, 08:52 AM
#528
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

There might be a change where Mobilize Reserves either requires just the T4 or you can opt to go to buy it early at the cost of some resources like now with the grenade requirements. Idea is you can go stronger Conscripts earlier if you go a pure Con build at the cost of rushing LVs slower, though Soviets can go M5/Quad to compensate, or stall into T4 which means non-mass Conscript builds get stronger at end game tech.


I'm not sure this fear of Mobilize Reserves coming online at T3 is warranted. PPSh and SVT Conscripts come even earlier, as does pretty much every other weapon upgrade in the game.

Personally though, I'd leave it in T4 and ditch all the Conscript sidetechs. They were a good idea once, but with Penals undermining them (no sidetech needed for PTRS) all they do is a hamstring a squad that doesn't need to be hamstrung.
2 Sep 2019, 10:03 AM
#529
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

The fear of t3 mobilize reserves is nonsensical considering how unviable sov T2 + conscripts are as an opening build...

Even t1 with cons isnt the best t1 starter
2 Sep 2019, 10:25 AM
#530
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 366

Can assault guards have their vet requirements adjusted to be the about the same as other soviet elite infantry? They have the requirements highest of all of them. Received accuracy can probably remain the same since they are quite potent with penals svt rifles and tommyguns.

Also still not convinced about the kv2, personally think its vet should be buffed.

Health bonus moved to vet 2, weapon rotation at vet 3 removed with vet 2 weapon rotation spread across vet 2 and 3. In place at vet 3 a reload buff as after this patch will be the only tank in the game without one.

Probably too late through.
2 Sep 2019, 11:37 AM
#531
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


I agree with all of those save for the last point. Penals can keep the PTRS, if it's a mutual upgrade to the svt (kinda like fussiliers)

Yes that would be another approach that makes sense. (was trying to keep my post sort)
2 Sep 2019, 14:54 PM
#532
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Sep 2019, 08:52 AMLago


I'm not sure this fear of Mobilize Reserves coming online at T3 is warranted. PPSh and SVT Conscripts come even earlier, as does pretty much every other weapon upgrade in the game.

Personally though, I'd leave it in T4 and ditch all the Conscript sidetechs. They were a good idea once, but with Penals undermining them (no sidetech needed for PTRS) all they do is a hamstring a squad that doesn't need to be hamstrung.


Or you could make Penals have to pay for both satchel and PTRS in the same upgrade as conscripts do with molotovs and AT nades.

Mobilize reserves should be unlocked in T3 but have some of the bonus arrive only at T4, like the reduced reinforce cost.
2 Sep 2019, 15:15 PM
#533
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



Or you could make Penals have to pay for both satchel and PTRS in the same upgrade as conscripts do with molotovs and AT nades.

Mobilize reserves should be unlocked in T3 but have some of the bonus arrive only at T4, like the reduced reinforce cost.

how about u get the current upgrade minus the 7th man for 40 mun after unlocking tier 3 and at tier 4 u get a FREE 7th man upgrade for all cons ? or the opposite
2 Sep 2019, 15:22 PM
#534
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2


how about u get the current upgrade minus the 7th man for 40 mun after unlocking tier 3 and at tier 4 u get a FREE 7th man upgrade for all cons ? or the opposite


However mod team wants to split it, might work.

Right now the situation is:

-Mobilize is arriving too late.
-Mobilize arriving at T3 is too soon. Give it a cost.
-The cost is too much, it should be unlocked for free at T4.
-No one is gonna pay for the upgrade at T3.
-Go back to point 1.

2 Sep 2019, 18:08 PM
#535
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 416 | Subs: 1

What if the T3 mobilize upgrade decreased the price of T4? That means it still delays the T-70 but reduces the total cost back to what it had been.
2 Sep 2019, 20:17 PM
#536
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1947

What if the T3 mobilize upgrade decreased the price of T4? That means it still delays the T-70 but reduces the total cost back to what it had been.


Seems like that would work, assuming that it isn't too difficult to program.
2 Sep 2019, 20:21 PM
#537
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Sep 2019, 20:17 PMGrumpy


Seems like that would work, assuming that it isn't too difficult to program.
it's not difficult,ost works alike that for example (can't build tier without battle phase)
2 Sep 2019, 21:18 PM
#538
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 416 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Sep 2019, 20:17 PMGrumpy


Seems like that would work, assuming that it isn't too difficult to program.


It wouldn't be; there's even a way to make that only apply to the 1st T4 building constructed, if anyone cared about the rebuild cost.
2 Sep 2019, 21:25 PM
#539
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818



However mod team wants to split it, might work.

Right now the situation is:

-Mobilize is arriving too late.
-Mobilize arriving at T3 is too soon. Give it a cost.
-The cost is too much, it should be unlocked for free at T4.
-No one is gonna pay for the upgrade at T3.
-Go back to point 1.



Well said +1
3 Sep 2019, 16:33 PM
#540
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

Does Assault Guard veterancy still differ significantly from normal Guard veterancy?

Should be looked into if it's so, patch only mentioned they get Thompsons instead of PPSH's.
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