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USA September patch discussion

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19 Aug 2019, 10:33 AM
#141
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3917


ISU doesn't 3 hit mediums from range 100 or whatever. ISU is great and absolutely erases infantry but a) it doesn't get shot at by pack howies which is literally the only reason I didn't mention it b) elefant and jagtiger basically hardcounter it the same way jackson hardcounters PIVs so it's more manageable.
isu has same range as elefant and u know how much is 240 x 3 right ?

U can flank a jt with a t 70 and kill it, try that with lunch or even puma vs Jackson

Btw I do agree with shadow proposal
19 Aug 2019, 15:47 PM
#142
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 797

isn't lowering the damage from RETs make them way less lethal vs kubels? I can see kubel spam completely shutting down USF with a change like that, especially now that kubels are getting buffed AGAIN. (not that I'm complaining much, I love Kubels)
19 Aug 2019, 16:09 PM
#143
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1018 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Aug 2019, 15:47 PMzerocoh
isn't lowering the damage from RETs make them way less lethal vs kubels? I can see kubel spam completely shutting down USF with a change like that, especially now that kubels are getting buffed AGAIN. (not that I'm complaining much, I love Kubels)


They go from needing 24 penetrating shots to 30. They still kill it somewhat fast though. From a few singular tests I took for time needed to kill a Kubel frontally:

- Assault Engineers take 10 seconds.
- Upgraded WC51 takes 10 seconds.
- Riflemen take 20 seconds.
- RET's take 25 seconds.
- Both Pathfinders variants take 30 seconds.
- USF vehicle crew takes 30 seconds.
19 Aug 2019, 17:01 PM
#145
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3917

I think it would be nice if Kubel got some adjustments to its accuracy since it heavily relies on being stationary.

The Universal Carrier has overall better stationary accuracy and accuracy on the move altogether, meaning higher DPS.

Kubel should get some improvements on accuracy (only while stationary), especially at range, it is quite poor its stats at the moment.

Not too important, yet a change I am looking forward to.
i still find it funny that the UC deal more damage at max range then kubel at 0 range
19 Aug 2019, 18:52 PM
#146
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

i still find it funny that the UC deal more damage at max range then kubel at 0 range


Yeah, that is really uncool for a Kubel to do that bad. Just a big lol really of a car for that kind of output.
19 Aug 2019, 19:24 PM
#147
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 445



Yeah, that is really uncool for a Kubel to do that bad. Just a big lol really of a car for that kind of output.


I would like the kubel to be better, but usf will need a counter for that to work. In the past, USf could never fight okw when kubels were bullet proof. This was true even after kubel lost their suppression. Usf had to pick wc51 or lose the early game.
19 Aug 2019, 19:27 PM
#148
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 445

A cool idea could be to give kubel the ability to toss a grenade. It would make it fun to use vs maxims that way. Idk if that would be too powerful vs retreating squads though.
19 Aug 2019, 21:03 PM
#149
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3138 | Subs: 1

i still find it funny that the UC deal more damage at max range then kubel at 0 range

Kuble is cheaper and can cap. Seems reasonable to be less combat proficient.
19 Aug 2019, 21:15 PM
#150
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3917


Kuble is cheaper and can cap. Seems reasonable to be less combat proficient.
UC can be upgraded and has more armor, and move units, etc

i think a bit of a buff close range is warranted to kubel

19 Aug 2019, 21:37 PM
#151
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 797

UC can be upgraded and has more armor, and move units, etc

i think a bit of a buff close range is warranted to kubel



you can't just look at dps charts and call it a day, Kubels have a massive 1.1 incremental accuracy, they do a massive burst against clumped units, and the kubel is very fast to go to the side of a heavy cover and poke a squad from the flank.

not to mention price, speed and vet bonus (vet1 maphack is really good). and kubels get shared veterancy, making it very easy to vet now.

I still think they could swap vet3 and 4 since auto-repairs are not more important than more damage.
19 Aug 2019, 22:37 PM
#152
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

Kubel in terms of what it can and can not do, what I know it does properly mostly is capping mainly.

In terms of supporting and firepower, it is somewhat lacking for its price.



Here me out:

It is definitely a good harassing unit, capping and decapping but other than that, there is not much else you can really say it is good at. Maybe recon but it only limits to infantry movement only which is good but has to fulfill some roles somewhat better.

When I say firepower, it is not that it has to be, wow great or strong.

No, it has to be more consistent, reliable and an independent unit in some ways.


Currently, it is not consistent, reliable or nor even an independent unit, not enough though.

It heavily relies on being supported meaning, It being supported more than it can support itself.

Its current accuracy is rather poor for both being stationary and while on the move. It is pretty terrible actually, really in a poor state.

Thus, I would say it deserves a buff in "accuracy" just ONLY while being stationary. It needs to also play properly a role of AI support.

It needs play more in the combat department more and less in "hide and seek" kind of gameplay as it does now.




It is currently a scout and cap guy only (a harasser which is viable mostly in 1v1 and 2v2 only, team games not so much).

Sucks at being supportive, it is unreliable in combat and overall not so viable. In terms of scaling, well it is not so great either overall.

Sure improved more than before, but not so much.



It needs to be more like, less a harasser and more of a supporter (provide infantry support at range).

Like being supportive enough, reliable in combat and somewhat more viable. So, that it can scale better also.

Buff price in the process like make it 230 manpower. Effects also early gameplay too, am I not right?


I say buff accuracy more to having it better off than Universal Carriers standard accuracy (without upgrade), only while stationary.

Universal Carrier has already way better by standard/default accuracy BOTH while stationary and on the move.

Plus it has better DPS. Not to mention also, it has an upgrade which not only boosts its accuracy more but damage also.



On the move the Kubel should be like crap but while stationary, it has to feel great (enough).

Just so it becomes more consistent, viable, somewhat independent yet relies on support but can also in the process provide some more better in the return.

All in all, the Kubel deserves a buff in accuracy, just to play more a supportive role than it currently does.

That is it, that is all it deserves. An accuracy buff only while being stationary. Make it its strength.
19 Aug 2019, 22:43 PM
#153
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 423

Why are we talking about the kubelwagen in the USF thread
19 Aug 2019, 22:49 PM
#154
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

Just that it was further mentioned but I end it there.


What I also wanted to mention, it regards Rear Echelons.


I feel they need to be changed more, to make it a more viable combat unit.

It should the kind of unit that supports infantry more, like providing Riflemen a passive booster in reload and rate of fire.


My idea is since Rear Echelons itself was not a good combat unit, it sure was a more a support unit.


Rear Echelons when near infantry or Riflemen in this instance, should provide faster reload and rate of fire.

The passive ability should be called "Brothers at Arms". Something that provides a boost in their performance.



Since Rear Echelons cant do much other than support I think it should do that.

Also, the more Echelons you get, the better the passive ability will become.


Having 2 Rear Echelons alongside infantry or Riflemen, will further enhance reload and rate of fire, but also provides accuracy bonus.


Thus, creates an incentive drive for getting more Echelons.


How is this of an idea?
19 Aug 2019, 23:28 PM
#155
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3917

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Aug 2019, 21:37 PMzerocoh


you can't just look at dps charts and call it a day, Kubels have a massive 1.1 incremental accuracy, they do a massive burst against clumped units, and the kubel is very fast to go to the side of a heavy cover and poke a squad from the flank.

not to mention price, speed and vet bonus (vet1 maphack is really good). and kubels get shared veterancy, making it very easy to vet now.

I still think they could swap vet3 and 4 since auto-repairs are not more important than more damage.

"There's an incremental accuracy modifier for small arms which increases accuracy by x% for every infantry model in a y radius around the target. Currently this is enabled on most machineguns (not the light variety), but is missing from every weapon used by infantry that isn't a HMG. It's not a huge effect by any means, but it does mean there is a minor damage taken increase for blobbing up against vehicle MGs and infantry HMGs."

from cruzz

19 Aug 2019, 23:38 PM
#156
avatar of Array
Donator 11

Posts: 575

Just that it was further mentioned but I end it there.

The passive ability should be called "Brothers at Arms". Something that provides a boost in their performance.

Since Rear Echelons cant do much other than support I think it should do that.

Also, the more Echelons you get, the better the passive ability will become.

Having 2 Rear Echelons alongside infantry or Riflemen, will further enhance reload and rate of fire, but also provides accuracy bonus.

Thus, creates an incentive drive for getting more Echelons.
How is this of an idea?


Sounds like a recipe for more blobbing
20 Aug 2019, 00:35 AM
#157
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 1

Why are we talking about the kubelwagen in the USF thread


What... A... Great.... QUESTION.....

USF only please :)
20 Aug 2019, 07:51 AM
#158
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13676 | Subs: 7

isu has same range as elefant and u know how much is 240 x 3 right ?

U can flank a jt with a t 70 and kill it, try that with lunch or even puma vs Jackson

Btw I do agree with shadow proposal

Vet3 puma(which should be at that level when there is jackson on field) which got a jump on jackson from behind will make short work of it and will at worst take 2 hits back.
20 Aug 2019, 08:40 AM
#159
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3917

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Aug 2019, 07:51 AMKatitof

Vet3 puma(which should be at that level when there is jackson on field) which got a jump on jackson from behind will make short work of it and will at worst take 2 hits back.
oh i wish we balanced things around vet, like obers :snfPeter:
20 Aug 2019, 08:48 AM
#160
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13676 | Subs: 7

oh i wish we balanced things around vet, like obers :snfPeter:

Vet0 puma will do it as well, but I wanted to avoid the other dreaded by axis mains here on .org thing, the use of basic micro.
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