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USA September patch discussion

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15 Aug 2019, 17:45 PM
#41
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3921



But they already have worse long range DPS than equivalent Axis infantry. Anything further and you might as well just build Ass Engies.

All this change did was increase the short range DPS plateau at ranges where Riflemen should be winning anyway. And for their price, it really is about goddamned time they excelled at something.
hmmh don0t they have almost same dps as volks that they them self have same long range dps as green ? or are u talking about fusilier ? cause they are strictly better at all ranges in that case
15 Aug 2019, 17:46 PM
#42
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 514

But they already have worse long range DPS than equivalent Axis infantry. Anything further and you might as well just build Ass Engies.

All this change did was increase the short range DPS plateau at ranges where Riflemen should be winning anyway. And for their price, it really is about goddamned time they excelled at something.


I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the change; just pointing out that the stat change doesn't match the intended goal. Stat wise, 'range dynamic' between Rifles and something like Grens has been decreased - not increased.
15 Aug 2019, 17:49 PM
#43
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1922 | Subs: 3

Not really sure I follow on this change. This hasn't really increased their "range dynamics", it's just increased their DPS at 3-15 range. Increasing dynamics would mean lowering something as well, like their long-range DPS.


At the moment they trade pretty much equally with Grens and Volks at max range, which means in effect that Riflemen trade worse because they are more expensive. So long range goes to the Axis mainlines (which is intended). Near and mid range should go to Riflemen, but we felt that their near range DPS felt a bit lackluster for this dynamic. The new values should reward positioning a bit better by making Riflemen feel more at home in the shorter ranges. A succesful ambush or succesfully closing in without taking too many casualties should now be rewarded more.
15 Aug 2019, 17:50 PM
#44
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3921

all while nerfing volks don't forget
15 Aug 2019, 17:53 PM
#45
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 428

hmmh don0t they have almost same dps as volks that they them self have same long range dps as green ? or are u talking about fusilier ? cause they are strictly better at all ranges in that case


Grens do more damage starting at range 10 and something like 30% more damage starting at range 25, besides being harder to hit.

Volks do only marginally better damage starting at range 24, but still better, and they also get a 10% RA boost at vet 1, have sandbags, get techless nades and upgrade to STGs, all while being 30 (20 soon?) MP cheaper.

And no, fusiliers also do better damage than riflemen starting at range 25.

(All of these units also get 40% accuracy buffs at vet 2, with the exception of Volks who only get 30%)
15 Aug 2019, 17:55 PM
#46
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 514

At the moment they trade pretty much equally with Grens and Volks at max range, which means in effect that Riflemen trade worse because they are more expensive. So long range goes to the Axis mainlines (which is intended). Near and mid range should go to Riflemen, but we felt that their near range DPS felt a bit lackluster for this dynamic. The new values should reward positioning a bit better by making Riflemen feel more at home in the shorter ranges. A succesful ambush or succesfully closing in without taking too many casualties should now be rewarded more.


Thanks, that's a much better description of what the goal was with these changes.

That said, I think this will just end up with (slightly) stronger double-bar blobs, which isn't a gameplay style I really want to support. Still, I'll reserve any real judgement until I play the patch-preview.
15 Aug 2019, 17:56 PM
#47
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 445

Thx devm :D!

You guys can't nerf usf and expect people to play them. Maybe these riflemen changes will be enough to offset all the indirect fire nerfs. It deffinently is going to make them tournament viable in 1v1.
15 Aug 2019, 17:57 PM
#48
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3921



Grens do more damage starting at range 10 and something like 30% more damage starting at range 25, besides being harder to hit.

Volks do only marginally better damage starting at range 24, but still better, and they also get a 10% RA boost at vet 1, have sandbags, get techless nades and upgrade to STGs, all while being 30 (20 soon?) MP cheaper.

And no, fusiliers also do better damage than riflemen starting at range 25.
i think u forgot that green have only 4 man so 8,40 for rifle vs green 9 of green, then add the 0,91 ra vs 0,97 ra and 80 more hp

so no long range rifle are equal to both green and volks
15 Aug 2019, 17:59 PM
#49
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 428

i think u forgot that green have only 4 man so 8,40 for rifle vs green 9 of green, then add the 0,91 ra vs 0,97 ra and 80 more hp

so no long range rifle are equal to both green and volks


Well, no actually. 5 to 4 is only a 20% reduction, and besides being harder to hit, individual Grenadiers do closer to 30% more damage at long range, which, it goes without saying, is a higher percentage than the 20% reduction in squad size. This, of course, all without mentioning their cheaper price.
15 Aug 2019, 18:01 PM
#50
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3921



Well, no actually. 5 to 4 is only a 20% reduction, and besides being harder to hit, individual Grenadiers do closer to 30% more damage at long range, which, it goes without saying, is a higher percentage than the 20% reduction in squad size. This, of course, all without mentioning their cheaper price.
i lieterally posted the raw dps value , green do 9 dps at max range , rifle do 8,40, while having 80 more hp, they are equal, and if u think about reinforce cost it's 30 mp vs 28
15 Aug 2019, 18:05 PM
#51
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 445

i lieterally posted the raw dps value , green do 9 dps at max range , rifle do 8,40, while having 80 more hp, they are equal, and if u think about reinforce cost it's 30 mp vs 28


They still have to test these changes. It is not said-and-done.
15 Aug 2019, 18:05 PM
#52
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 428

i lieterally posted the raw dps value , green do 9 dps at max range , rifle do 8,40, while having 80 more hp, they are equal, and if u think about reinforce cost it's 30 mp vs 28



So that's what that was about. I really don't understand this system of using commas in place of decimals.
But you still agree that grens do more damage at long range, then. For a lesser price. As that is in fact a higher value.
15 Aug 2019, 18:06 PM
#53
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2679

SEPTEMBER 2019 PATCH PREVIEW - Version 1.1 Changes

USF
Changes to both of the following units were discussed before release. The team has decided to include for testing after initial feedback.

Riflemen
We think Riflemen are solid infantry that scale very well, but we would like to put more emphasis on the engagement range dynamics between them and long range Axis squads. Their near range (and thereby their near DPS) will be slightly increased, which will naturally slightly increase their DPS up to range 16
- Near range from 3 to 6


(Chart amended from https://coh2db.com/stats/ )

Rear Echelon Troops
To make Rear Echelon Troops carbines perform more consistently, as currently they are very RNG dependent with their low accuracy but high rate of fire and damage, their accuracy has been increased. In return their damage per bullet will be reduced, to keep the same total DPS as now
- Damage from 10 to 8
- Accuracy from 0.403/0.288/0.23 to 0.51/0.3456/0.276

Excellent changes IMO.
15 Aug 2019, 18:09 PM
#54
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 514

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Aug 2019, 17:53 PMMazianni
Grens do more damage starting at range 10 and something like 30% more damage starting at range 25, besides being harder to hit.


i think u forgot that green have only 4 man so 8,40 for rifle vs green 9 of green, then add the 0,91 ra vs 0,97 ra and 80 more hp


All factors accounted for (RA, squad members), the break-even point is 19 range at vet 0 for Grens vs. Rifles, with grens scaling up to 12.6% better at max range (35).



That break-even range will increase and the 35 range difference will decrease as both units gain vet, since Rifle vet is slightly better than gren vet, in terms of dps / ra.
15 Aug 2019, 18:09 PM
#55
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3921




So that's what that was about. I really don't understand this system of using commas in place of decimals.
But you still agree that grens do more damage at long range, then. For a lesser price. As that is in fact a higher value.
but they still will be equal thanks to the more hp,
15 Aug 2019, 18:13 PM
#56
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3174 | Subs: 1

Can we consider giving REs sandbags instead of tanktraps? It's really difficult to get all your squad members behind a thin piece of green cover sometimes and it often leads to being suppressed by MGs even though you're behind green cover
15 Aug 2019, 18:21 PM
#57
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 445

Can we consider giving REs sandbags instead of tanktraps? It's really difficult to get all your squad members behind a thin piece of green cover sometimes and it often leads to being suppressed by MGs even though you're behind green cover


I have been saying this for years. Sandbags give usf more tatical options and make smoke actually useful. Tank traps are very unreliable.

I would smoke fuel points and build bags on them. I recommend people to try it just for fun.
15 Aug 2019, 18:25 PM
#58
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 428

The funny thing is they already have sandbags in the Ardennes Assault campaign iirc.
15 Aug 2019, 18:28 PM
#59
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Isn't there any option to reintroduce the upkeep cost decrease like USF had in VCoH? I mean, playing USF just feels like a nonstop bleeding wound when it comes to mp.
15 Aug 2019, 18:29 PM
#60
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3087 | Subs: 1

I have never used tank traps because I lack the planning to make them not also constantly block my own vehicles :-<
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