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Conscripts idea "Human Wave Tactics"

8 May 2019, 18:45 PM
#1
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 364

So I have been thinking. To fit the historical aspects of the game and to make it more diverse. I was thinking Cons having instead 8 men. The upgrade should slightly come earlier after either one or two built. A total of 8 men but 6 men equipped with weapons, the other 2 unarmed but waiting for other models to die in order to get their weapon. Fits the historical aspect like the Movie "Enemy at The Gates". Not all cons had rifles, they had to get it from another dead con. Create this element of "Human Wave Tactics" would surely improve the elements of the game and SU.

Maybe until the Last Base 7 men are equipped with weapons and 1 without. Oraah ability should be changed. It should be increase reload speed and rate of fire within 5 seconds, should create some form of aggression. I think that would be kind of interesting.

Some modifiers should be changed like increasing their received accuracy but decreasing their overall cost of resupply. Since Russia had the biggest population and army, makes sense. To create interesting historical elements of the game.

What say you? :hyper:
8 May 2019, 18:54 PM
#2
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1231 | Subs: 3

The enemy at the gates is absolutely unhistorical, there is not a single documentary confirmation from both the Soviet and the German sides that Soviet soldiers engaged in unarmed combat, especially in Stalingrad, where rifles were taken from soldiers and given PPSH-41 for urban combat.
For me, a 7-person upgrade is useless, because it really does not help in the late game of the Soviet faction, but to have an even more free-line 8-person - no, thanks. Give me a normal 6-man with improved weapons.
ddd
8 May 2019, 19:09 PM
#3
avatar of ddd

Posts: 323

But we already have "human wave tactics" faction. Its called OKW.
8 May 2019, 19:18 PM
#4
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1414 | Subs: 1

Sure, would be great for all those brain dead players who can't micro to avoid squad wipes. Definitely won't have any negative repercussions there!
8 May 2019, 19:36 PM
#5
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 613 | Subs: 1

Maybe the details are too radical, but Id certainly love to see somethin in this direction, rather than somethin boring like DP LMG upgrade.

Soviets, who were originally meant to be the spamming, low quality high numbers, Zerg faction of CoH2, are - in the current meta- heavily reliant on small amounts of semi-elite to elite units like Penals, Snipers, Guards, T70s and SU-85


#makeConshordeswith34/76esSpamviableAgain
8 May 2019, 19:47 PM
#6
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 364

Sure, would be great for all those brain dead players who can't micro to avoid squad wipes. Definitely won't have any negative repercussions there!


It will definitely have some form of negative repercussions. There received should be the highest of all units in game, so their chances of being killed should be the highest. This would be a good supportive unit for soviets as they can help merge more and be a bait kind of unit if necessary.

The time to kill should be less overall but should be faster the likelihood of losing a model faster in contrast to the way it is now.

Their current received accuracy vet 0 is ( 1.09 received accuracy ). With 8 man it should be around ( 1.4 - 1.5 received accuracy).

Manpower reinforce should be cheaper than it current is. Dont know how much exactly it is currently but maybe a reinforce cost similar to Ostruppen.

It should be interesting!

8 May 2019, 19:51 PM
#7
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 364

The enemy at the gates is absolutely unhistorical, there is not a single documentary confirmation from both the Soviet and the German sides that Soviet soldiers engaged in unarmed combat, especially in Stalingrad, where rifles were taken from soldiers and given PPSH-41 for urban combat.
For me, a 7-person upgrade is useless, because it really does not help in the late game of the Soviet faction, but to have an even more free-line 8-person - no, thanks. Give me a normal 6-man with improved weapons.


The element I pointed out that was mainly historical was conscripts not provided all with weapons. Some were equipped while others were not. That is historical. I did not say that they engaged without weapons, only some were unequipped. That is a historical fact. In the early years since there were more men than weapons for the Soviet Union.
8 May 2019, 19:55 PM
#8
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 12366 | Subs: 6

1) Its old idea.
2) Its as stupid as it was previous 1000 times.
3) Stop believing everything you see in movies, even penal batallions were well armed when going into combat.
8 May 2019, 20:04 PM
#9
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1231 | Subs: 3



The element I pointed out that was mainly historical was conscripts not provided all with weapons. Some were equipped while others were not. That is historical. I did not say that they engaged without weapons, only some were unequipped. That is a historical fact. In the early years since there were more men than weapons for the Soviet Union.


The Soviet Union did not send unarmed soldiers into battle, in 1941 when the USSR lost a lot of people and weapons, and the formation of new infantry divisions began, even at the most critical moment these divisions were not sent to the front, they were deployed only after receiving all weapons and completion of basic training. The only thing that somehow fits your theory - the People’s Militia, they got all the outdated weapons of the First World War and foreign production, but after the battle for Moscow ended, the People’s Militia merged with the regular infantry divisions and got the standard weapon.
8 May 2019, 20:15 PM
#10
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4320

The element I pointed out that was mainly historical was conscripts not provided all with weapons. Some were equipped while others were not. That is historical.


Troops did not enter combat unarmed, that's a myth spawned by Enemy at the Gates and reinforced by Call of Duty. While there were probably troops that did not have weapons, they would be recruits and not frontoviki (frontline troops).
8 May 2019, 20:21 PM
#11
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 1607 | Subs: 1

1) Its old idea.
2) Its as stupid as it was previous 1000 times.
3) Stop believing everything you see in movies, even penal batallions were well armed when going into combat.


are there some sources about the armament of penal battalions? i once read that some of them were higher officers and political criminals while being experienced soldiers. Thats why some of them got modern weapons. but i forgot my source.

thats why i alwys thought they got SVTs ingame

8 May 2019, 20:34 PM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 12366 | Subs: 6



are there some sources about the armament of penal battalions? i once read that some of them were higher officers and political criminals while being experienced soldiers. Thats why some of them got modern weapons. but i forgot my source.

thats why i alwys thought they got SVTs ingame


They were often sent on one way missions, but they were supposed to complete these missions, not run against HMGs and just die.

Depending on the objective, they might've been equipped as elite troops or as regular strelky - they simply weren't expected to return in one piece.

Its been couple of years since I've read about it, so no source attacked.
8 May 2019, 20:58 PM
#13
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1231 | Subs: 3



are there some sources about the armament of penal battalions? i once read that some of them were higher officers and political criminals while being experienced soldiers. Thats why some of them got modern weapons. but i forgot my source.

thats why i alwys thought they got SVTs ingame



There were three variants of penal divisions in the USSR:
- Separate penal company - military and junior command and commanding (sergeant) personnel of all branches of the forces were sent there, convicted of military or general criminal offenses. They numbered 150-200 people.
- Separate penal battalion - there were sent the servicemen of the average commanding and commanding (officer) staff of all the branches of the forces, convicted of military or common crimes. They numbered 800 people.



- Separate assault rifle battalions - Appeared in 1943. They were formed from private soldiers and officers who were for a long time in the territory occupied by the enemy, in captivity, encirclement, and thus potentially suspected of possible cooperation with the enemy. The duration of stay is 2 months of participation in battles, or before awarding an order for displaying prowess in battle or until the first wound, after which the personnel, if there are good attestations, could be assigned to field positions in the field troops. The soldiers did not lose their military ranks, as he was not convicted by the tribunal, but all soldiers were ordinary soldiers-storm trooper.

8 May 2019, 20:59 PM
#14
avatar of flyingpancake

Posts: 40

Maybe the details are too radical, but Id certainly love to see somethin in this direction, rather than somethin boring like DP LMG upgrade.

I disagree with this. For so long we have been searching for a way to make cons viable lategame with no real success. The most pragmatic solution here would be to allow them to buy a DP28 once the t70-su76-m3 building has been build and maybe slightly tweak the vetetancy accordingly. Also it would fix the under representation of DP28's in this game.
8 May 2019, 21:02 PM
#15
avatar of Maret

Posts: 197

Oh this "historical movies"...from one movie i knew that Lincoln killed vampires. From other i saw t34-85 in 1942 and modern CV in the middle of Battle for Midway.
If you want introduce some kind of Human Waves tactics for SU, you can make ability relief infantry nondoctrinal. Problem solved, you've got new tactic that best suit for SU in your opinion...But also got bunch balance problems for Wermacht and OKW.
P.S. If you really want to learn history of WW2 i highly recommended you to read books and historical forums. It's the best then stupid Hollywood movies.
10 May 2019, 20:08 PM
#16
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 364

I think this Conscripts is a good idea. Conscripts were not even trained. Learned to shoot that is it. Limited training because they were militia more or less. Read Great Purge, explains everything. It would be nice to promote this idea "Human wave tactics" that was used during the war.

The movie was just as an example. A lot of Hollywood movies are bs and some biased. I have read books also about it, so I know what I am talking about.

Give the 7 man early upgrade. costs 50 ammo After 1 base built.

Last Base 8 man squad. 50 ammo for each upgrade. Last base becomes available. No need for weapon upgrades.

As they upgrade the Conscripts, the refill price becomes cheaper but have a slight increase in received accuracy. Create this atmosphere of huge waves of Conscripts. Increases the vet rate also.

Currently they have default 1.09 ra and refill costs around 20. 1st man upgrade becomes 1.23 price refill becomes 17. 2nd last upgrade would be like 1.4 ra and price refill become 13.

The good part about getting these upgrades is the fact you will vet even faster. All-in all an interesting feature that would spicen up Soviet gameplay.

Check History stats, SU had the biggest army at its time and was renowned for it, they suffered and sustained many casualties cuz many conscripts fought on the front-lines. Died in mass quantities due to poor training and equipment.

Best weapons and equipment were given to the elite such as the red guards, shock units and penals, makes sense. Conscripts just had the numbers and mosins, and captured weapons.

10 May 2019, 20:48 PM
#17
avatar of Grim

Posts: 614

For my next balance thread I shall draw inspiration from a historical film I saw recently-Iron Sky.
10 May 2019, 20:53 PM
#18
avatar of Musti

Posts: 39

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2019, 20:48 PMGrim
For my next balance thread I shall draw inspiration from a historical film I saw recently-Iron Sky.

I'd go with Wolfenstein

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkUkiZBWOlc
10 May 2019, 22:25 PM
#19
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 364

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2019, 20:48 PMGrim
For my next balance thread I shall draw inspiration from a historical film I saw recently-Iron Sky.


Yes, another AXIS faction finally. Lets bring balance to the force. 3 German factions, That is simply great. Great idea.
Relic Approves and so does our friendly neighbour


PURE PHILOSOPHY
11 May 2019, 02:58 AM
#20
avatar of blancat

Posts: 343

ridiculous idea


play more soviet and axis and comeback here


You don't even know the whole flow of the game

The balance of the game is not a delusion or a movie
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