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Soviet General Faction Changes - New cmdr mod 5.0

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24 Apr 2019, 14:12 PM
#301
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



So what’s better? Balancing that half-truck or holding conscripts hostage over it? If it messes up balancing so much then fix it, don’t base the power level of conscripts around it.

Why are you asking me? I am not the one that suggested that conscripts should have 1 weapon slot.

On the contrary I have posted several times that intentional drop-able weapon should either be removed or unit should pick a version of the weapon according to their power.
24 Apr 2019, 15:38 PM
#302
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 366

Just thinking,

Why can't they get a damage reduction buff when in cover (applying to yellow cover as well and accompanied with a rof buff)?

This would further help then survive getting obliterate by artillery buffing their staying power and helping them deal more dps.

In this case you can even split them into two separate tier levels.

Cover buff at tier 3 and current upgrade at tier 4 or vice versa.


24 Apr 2019, 15:48 PM
#303
avatar of cochosgo

Posts: 301

I'm really confused about the discussion about pickable weapons.

As far as I remember, when relic gave cons glasses to finaly land their shots they also reduced their weapon slots to 1 and added a modifier to make looted weapons less effective
24 Apr 2019, 16:34 PM
#304
avatar of MrBananaGrabber.
Patrion 26

Posts: 328

Just thinking,

Why can't they get a damage reduction buff when in cover (applying to yellow cover as well and accompanied with a rof buff)?

This would further help then survive getting obliterate by artillery buffing their staying power and helping them deal more dps.

In this case you can even split them into two separate tier levels.

Cover buff at tier 3 and current upgrade at tier 4 or vice versa.




+1 great idea!
24 Apr 2019, 16:45 PM
#305
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

I'm really confused about the discussion about pickable weapons.

As far as I remember, when relic gave cons glasses to finaly land their shots they also reduced their weapon slots to 1 and added a modifier to make looted weapons less effective

We are talking mostly about weapons that can be "given" like the ones from UKF m5 and new SVTs.

In addition there no modifier to make "looted weapons less effective". There is chaos where, a handful of units pick different version of the weapon and a penalty in ostruppen slot weapon when in cover.
24 Apr 2019, 16:51 PM
#306
avatar of Thundrag

Posts: 17

Making conscripts get extra -RA when in cover would make sense given their fodder nature and description. Though a big problem is how harshly they bleed so I believe they should get a baseline reinforce cost reduction since the cost reduction from the T4 upgrade in testing comes fairly late and will slightly help other conscript play with ppsh/ptrs.
24 Apr 2019, 18:26 PM
#307
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



That would still have the effect of the upgrade usually coming when T3 is built, which would give a huge sudden power spike (together with T-70) that should be avoided.

T4 is too late
Are we aware that when okw builds their first truck they get a huge power spike including a weapon upgrade, a snare, an hmgamd a light vehicle?
Or usf getting a free squad
The 7th man isn't the caliber of a weapon upgrade and I think you are overstating the power spike it would add. Again, make it a fuel unlock (like molitovs but actually something someone might unlock) so it doesn't effect anything unless the player wants it too, which is how all conscript upgrades should be applied. It locks out a weapon slot and cons 50mu,its not handed out and they are still conscripts. Some players want variety and a chance to not have to go T70 each. And. Ever. Game. 7 man conscripts and the halftrack could be alot of fun but is hardly viable due to the timing of the upgrade. What's more is that cons have been getting trashed for the whole game by that point because nobody was concerned about the power spikes of weapon upgrades and locking them behind the final tier
24 Apr 2019, 18:55 PM
#308
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

If Conscripts need another buff on top of the extra man, how about this?

Change the target size of the Conscript model from 1.09 to 1.

Firstly, it's a modest combat buff at all stages of the game.

It also means merging Conscripts into Penals or Combat Engineers doesn't nerf those squads. Conscripts become a very practical onfield reinforcement tool.
24 Apr 2019, 19:01 PM
#309
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Test mod 6.0 changes:

Soviets - General faction changes

Conscripts
We are adjusting the upgrade to reinforce the role of Conscripts to fight from defensive positions to wear down the enemy through attrition.
- When upgraded with Mobilize Reserves, weapon cooldown and reload on Mosin Nagant rifles is reduced by 50% when in cover.

Ranges: 0/10/20/30/35
DPS Conscript Rifle: 3.61/2.6/1.98/1.346/1.0
DPS Conscript Rifle in Cover: 4.149/3.1/2.41/1.71/1.37

If this proves to be too strong, we will adjust accordingly.

M-42 Anti-Tank Gun
We are boosting the M42’s range back up to match the range of infantry small-arms with slight compensation to its performance when camouflauged.
- Canister range from 30 to 35.
- First-strike bonus from camouflage now lasts for two shots; unit is still revealed after the first shot.
24 Apr 2019, 19:21 PM
#310
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

I'm not keen on the Osttruppen-style cover buff. I think it's complicating things unnecessarily.
24 Apr 2019, 19:26 PM
#311
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607

Eh, it's something, and it does mean it's not a consistent buff.

Curious to see how it plays out.
24 Apr 2019, 19:35 PM
#312
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2181 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Apr 2019, 19:21 PMLago
I'm not keen on the Osttruppen-style cover buff. I think it's complicating things unnecessarily.

I agree, for me this is absolutely not a viable change. Build sandbags and wait until the squad is wipe out with Brummbar / Artillery / Panzerwerfer / Stuka. I prefer to deal damage rather than wait for me to be killed.
24 Apr 2019, 19:36 PM
#313
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573

Why not just give them Guard's mosins? This is basically what they get when they're in cover
Actually it's even better than Guard mosins... any chance they simply get G.mosins instead of this buff?
Phy
24 Apr 2019, 19:39 PM
#314
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1


To spot for TD? To capture VPs under fire? To chase and snare tanks without loosing too much resources/value?

LOL. Literally nohing for 240mp... besides you can use any other unit or ability for those roles and get something else in reward.
Nice design: core SU infantry role is spot for td, cap under fire (LOL unique ability of cons isnt it?) and chase tanks to snare...what a joke.
24 Apr 2019, 20:08 PM
#315
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

I have been criticizing conscripts’ design the past few days, but this is actually a good change. Essentially doubles dps in heavy cover, which will effectively make them good defensive infantry and synergize with penals. I can see cons being built after T4 now.

So what’s next? Is the maxim gonna be buffed to allow cons/maxim openings to be viable again? Is there any chance to combine the new airborne commander with this upgrade? Maybe the package gives 1 or 2 svts alongside the 7men upgrade?
24 Apr 2019, 20:27 PM
#316
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

You know the saddest part?

Now that 7 man con squads with a basically double damage in cover mod exist...

The SVT package is sort of worthless. For 5mu more you can get a much better squad.
24 Apr 2019, 20:30 PM
#317
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

You know the saddest part?

Now that 7 man con squads with a basically double damage in cover mod exist...

The SVT package is sort of worthless. For 5mu more you can get a much better squad.


We might change that but, it should be noted you are also waiting for T4 to activate during that time.
24 Apr 2019, 20:30 PM
#318
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

I like that con buff here, it might be what's needed for them to stand up on their own legs in late game.

We might change that but, it should be noted you are also waiting for T4 to activate during that time.

Just replace SVTs with con PTRS package and call it a day.
Only squad in game they really do help are sweeper CEs.
PPSH penals are too squishy and not mobile enough to actually engage with that potential DPS and yeah, timing or not, SVTs overlap with that con buff, even if SVTs arrive earlier and are easier to use(due to no cover required for full dps).

As much as I love SVTs, the way they are now, with the drop(implying it was considered and at the end intended to share it with allies in team games for whom they do absolutely nothing) feels really forced, given the fact that just 2 weakest units in game actually benefit from it in any way.
24 Apr 2019, 20:40 PM
#319
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3



We might change that but, it should be noted you are also waiting for T4 to activate during that time.


Just combine them somehow. Airborne truly plays like an elite infantry doctrine with 3lmg airborne guards, ppsh penals, penals and svt conscripts, which is actually super refreshing with all the variety.

Dare I say the doctrine is actually fun.
24 Apr 2019, 20:44 PM
#320
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

You know the saddest part?

Now that 7 man con squads with a basically double damage in cover mod exist...

The SVT package is sort of worthless. For 5mu more you can get a much better squad.


SVT package would give much more power early and mid game. Same for PPSH upgrade. 7th men at tier 4 would give more power only in the late game. It'd a timing investment rather than a DPS investment. It might need tweaks but this principle is pretty solid, imo.
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