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Soviet General Faction Changes - New cmdr mod 5.0

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25 Apr 2019, 10:23 AM
#341
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 149

Just tested the 6.0 mod and conscripts are far to powerful now.

I can live with the late game 7th man but the huge cover buffs are completely unnecessary.
25 Apr 2019, 10:26 AM
#342
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13805 | Subs: 7

Just tested the 6.0 mod and conscripts are far to powerful now.

I can live with the late game 7th man but the huge cover buffs are completely unnecessary.

Replay then, since you have not put any description of why that would be so.
25 Apr 2019, 10:53 AM
#343
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1

So here we have an upgrade that:
- Significantly reduces bleed with 15% reduced reinforcement cost and up to 17% better damage distribution (extra model).
- Increases the total healthpool by 17% (extra model).
- Increases individual dps by 15%~37% in cover and group dps by 17% (extra model), for a total dps increase of 34%~60% in cover.
- Increases veterancy gain by 20%.

But somehow a single dp upgrade would be too strong. :foreveralone:
25 Apr 2019, 10:55 AM
#344
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 2

So here we have an upgrade that:
- Significantly reduces bleed with 15% reduced reinforcement cost and up to 17% better damage distribution (extra model).
- Increases the total healthpool by 17% (extra model).
- Increases individual dps by 15%~37% in cover and group dps by 17% (extra model), for a total dps increase of 34%~60% in cover.
- Increases veterancy gain by 20%.

But somehow a single dp upgrade would be too strong. :foreveralone:

It would be too lazy.
25 Apr 2019, 10:56 AM
#345
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1


It would be too lazy.


I'd take lazy over messy.
25 Apr 2019, 10:58 AM
#346
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1499 | Subs: 3


It would be too lazy.


We do not need light the way, we need a complex and non-obvious ponzi schem to improve performance, instead of a direct buff.
25 Apr 2019, 11:03 AM
#347
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 2



We do not need light the way, we need a complex and non-obvious ponzi schem to improve performance, instead of a direct buff.

Well, I could solve all faction balance problems in 1 swing - just remove all factions but 1 so everyone would be able to play only mirror matches. Absolute balance for everyone! How interesting would it be for you to play such game?
25 Apr 2019, 11:11 AM
#348
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1499 | Subs: 3


Well, I could solve all faction balance problems in 1 swing - just remove all factions but 1 so everyone would be able to play only mirror matches. Absolute balance for everyone! How interesting would it be for you to play such game?


This idea is not new, it was still in the first year of the game, when the Wehrmacht raped the Soviets.
And what's the difference in the DP-27 which can only shoot without movement and increase damage in the cover without movement. The difference in visibility and DP-27 can work without cover.
25 Apr 2019, 11:16 AM
#349
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1983 | Subs: 3

So here we have an upgrade that:
- Significantly reduces bleed with 15% reduced reinforcement cost and up to 17% better damage distribution (extra model).
- Increases the total healthpool by 17% (extra model).
- Increases individual dps by 15%~37% in cover and group dps by 17% (extra model), for a total dps increase of 34%~60% in cover.
- Increases veterancy gain by 20%.

But somehow a single dp upgrade would be too strong. :foreveralone:


You are only presenting half the facts in that list. Let's expand it:

- A DP-28 would improve long range DPS by more than 60% (by ~88%);
- A DP-28 would have significantly better DPS retention (~56% of total DPS concentrated on one transferable weapon);
- A DP-28 would only favor long range engagements, creating a stale max range LMG match-up with Grenadiers, as opposed to the current upgrade which allows Cons to be flexible as it improves their DPS at every range;
- The cooldown/reload bonusses for the 7th man upgrade are just a first iteration prototype and will likely see further changes (find a sweet spot for the DPS increase that fits their cost and role);
- A DP-28 upgrade was not so much considered to be too strong, but was considered to have a negative effect on gameplay because of the previously mentioned point(s).
25 Apr 2019, 11:21 AM
#350
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3258 | Subs: 1

A single dp. I would have to just quit playing because I don't think I could stand how exciting that would be. Could you imagine? You deal with this shitty squad all game then BAM. It happens. You have finally reached nirvana. You, the luck bastard get to arm what some people call the worst squad in the game (debatable) with the dp28! The WORST machine gun in the game. So garbage that a the new commander gives 3 for 100mu vs the usual 60-70 for one!

Stalin shares a rare smile knowing his incredible 5 year plan has lead to this moment:conscripts combine shitty stats with a shitty weapon resulting in literally nobody even bothering because that single weapon slot is more valuable picking up literally any other weapon in the entire game including a single PTRS because the dp28 is so awful.

The west is terrified and in awe at the paltry firepower knowing that if the Soviets are willing to waste a squad and munitions on this God awful combination imagine how much they are floating! But more importantly if THIS is the best that their minds can come up with arming their core infantry, it must mean that anyone with an IQ exceeding that of a 5 year old must be set onto some sort of much higher and more important tasks.

A single DP28. yep. THATS what will fix cons. THAT'S what I want to spend munitions on. THATS what I want to spend my 1 weapon slot on.
25 Apr 2019, 11:31 AM
#351
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1499 | Subs: 3

A single dp. I would have to just quit playing because I don't think I could stand how exciting that would be. Could you imagine? You deal with this shitty squad all game then BAM. It happens. You have finally reached nirvana. You, the luck bastard get to arm what some people call the worst squad in the game (debatable) with the dp28! The WORST machine gun in the game. So garbage that a the new commander gives 3 for 100mu vs the usual 60-70 for one!

Stalin shares a rare smile knowing his incredible 5 year plan has lead to this moment:conscripts combine shitty stats with a shitty weapon resulting in literally nobody even bothering because that single weapon slot is more valuable picking up literally any other weapon in the entire game including a single PTRS because the dp28 is so awful.

The west is terrified and in awe at the paltry firepower knowing that if the Soviets are willing to waste a squad and munitions on this God awful combination imagine how much they are floating! But more importantly if THIS is the best that their minds can come up with arming their core infantry, it must mean that anyone with an IQ exceeding that of a 5 year old must be set onto some sort of much higher and more important tasks.

A single DP28. yep. THATS what will fix cons. THAT'S what I want to spend munitions on. THATS what I want to spend my 1 weapon slot on.


And so I still say that the Airborne should receive two buffs DP-27, instead of continuing to ignore that this is the worst machine gun, make it 45 ammunition and similar to Bren. This is ridiculous the DP-27 is a good machine gun at the level of Bren, but he is worse than the BAR which is an automatic rifle.
25 Apr 2019, 13:36 PM
#352
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1541

A single dp. I would have to just quit playing because I don't think I could stand how exciting that would be. Could you imagine? You deal with this shitty squad all game then BAM. It happens. You have finally reached nirvana. You, the luck bastard get to arm what some people call the worst squad in the game (debatable) with the dp28! The WORST machine gun in the game. So garbage that a the new commander gives 3 for 100mu vs the usual 60-70 for one!

Stalin shares a rare smile knowing his incredible 5 year plan has lead to this moment:conscripts combine shitty stats with a shitty weapon resulting in literally nobody even bothering because that single weapon slot is more valuable picking up literally any other weapon in the entire game including a single PTRS because the dp28 is so awful.

The west is terrified and in awe at the paltry firepower knowing that if the Soviets are willing to waste a squad and munitions on this God awful combination imagine how much they are floating! But more importantly if THIS is the best that their minds can come up with arming their core infantry, it must mean that anyone with an IQ exceeding that of a 5 year old must be set onto some sort of much higher and more important tasks.

A single DP28. yep. THATS what will fix cons. THAT'S what I want to spend munitions on. THATS what I want to spend my 1 weapon slot on.


That was enjoyable to read. Actually funny and uplifting.
25 Apr 2019, 13:41 PM
#353
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1541

I dont like any of the Conscript changes either by the way. They all feel needlessly complicated and unintuitive. IMO the best thing would be a combined AT/molotov package for 15 fuel/150 MP and slightly better DPS for the conscript mosins.
25 Apr 2019, 14:20 PM
#354
avatar of capiqua
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 974 | Subs: 2

1. It might be the last patch. I've always had this idea Code of Conduct of incorporating these tips via mod, but the mod is not my thing. I hope if @Andy_RE wants to be able to add as a first page and then selecting the commanders:

will help new users and some users who are wild and who play without conduct.

2.
And these are some small changes that greatly improve the game on 2v2/3v3/4v4 teamgames. Do not need many patch tests:

-Add, Put Away/Activate Minesweeper ability Sturmpioner to EngineerSOV and PioneerWERH.
In this way its durability in the field is increased.
-Add upgrade ultra repair hability to EngineerSOV and PioneerWERH.
Activated when you reach T3/T4. SOV/WERH sappers are very weak and it is very difficult for them to scale to vet2.
-Started unit swap; SturmpioOKW by Volk, Tommy by RoyalIng.
You should not gift units of 280MP or 300MP from start.
-Add Anti-aircraft Mode ability AAtruckOKW to all the AA's of the game.
This prevents them from being revealed in FOW units unnecessarily, which does not have AA properties like MG on turrets.
-Forward Assembly BRIT; swap Coordinated Fire by Brace hability.
Coordinated Fire is little used, but if it is put brace it will be used a lot, because it is exposed to the
harassment and artillery of the axis.
-Reduced or remove range minimum smoke limit to Emplazement Mortar BRIT
It is difficult to defend the emplazement with a brace very nerf.
-Remove paralize vehi/tanks. Riegel & M20 mines: Completely paralyze, so it's kind of senseless in this game situation.
-Remove Spoting Scope hability from ELE.
-Remove InfraredHT OKW.
-Reduced range vision in camo of Raketen, JPIV, ATzis.
The raketen is used as a cheap sniper, providing vision and a high defense
-JT one throughout the game (like TigerACE). If you lose him you can opt for the KT.
-Remove StumTiger critics own of abandoning vehicle.
-Raise costs MU; 1 flares 60MU, ArtyFlares 90, ReconCircle 90MU, ReconPass 60MU.
This will reduce the abuse of recon / flares and then rain of rockets
-WKstuka reduced damage as to Katy/Panzerwer, reduced cost from 100 to 90FU
Now the emplazement are garbage, you have to reduce the damage by projectile and leave the bonuses vs placements
-Maybe reduce FU Comet cost from 185 to 175FU, Ff from 155 to 145FU.
OKW vs SOV have good TDs, but UK are super slow as the Ff or do not reach that strength as the comet vs panther.
25 Apr 2019, 14:30 PM
#355
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1


...
- The cooldown/reload bonusses for the 7th man upgrade are just a first iteration prototype and will likely see further changes (find a sweet spot for the DPS increase that fits their cost and role);
- A DP-28 upgrade was not so much considered to be too strong, but was considered to have a negative effect on gameplay because of the previously mentioned point(s).


I would hope so. Currently the upgrade turns Conscripts into an insanely effective squad with:

- A double buff to dps at all ranges.
- A double buff for decreased bleed.
- A buff to durability.

It's too much. Soviets already have potent elite infantry and Conscripts have excellent vet bonusses (to compensate lack of weapon upgrade). IMO, it's the early game performance of Conscripts that needed a boost, together with a small nerf to Volks.
25 Apr 2019, 16:07 PM
#356
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1134 | Subs: 1

I really like this idea for a conscript buff. It makes them very good defensive troops, synergizes with their abilities (better sandbags and merge), and helps newly created squads with gaining vet late (like weapon upgrades do for other squads). It does all this without being derivative and just adding an LMG. It is a very smart and thematic addition, and I applaud the mod team for coming up with it.

The only thing I would change maybe would be a cosmetic/ flavor change - have the 7th man look a little different to represent the addition of a veteran NCO to the squad. This would fit with the theme of not just gaining a new man, but also getting general combat upgrades. Maybe give the new model the soft cap or non-caped guard fatigues.
25 Apr 2019, 16:49 PM
#357
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1983 | Subs: 3

The only thing I would change maybe would be a cosmetic/ flavor change - have the 7th man look a little different to represent the addition of a veteran NCO to the squad. This would fit with the theme of not just gaining a new man, but also getting general combat upgrades. Maybe give the new model the soft cap or non-caped guard fatigues.


If the 7th man stays it will likely get the unused Sergeant model, but it couldn't be added to the mod because it uses a victory condition pack (just like the missing Thompsons and SVT models).
25 Apr 2019, 19:28 PM
#358
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13805 | Subs: 7



If the 7th man stays it will likely get the unused Sergeant model, but it couldn't be added to the mod because it uses a victory condition pack (just like the missing Thompsons and SVT models).

If 7th man won't stay, just scrap airborne SVT drop, add that as stock con upgrade and replace SVT drop with any other weapon upgrade(I'd personally go with dank hunter con ptrs).
25 Apr 2019, 20:06 PM
#359
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 275

I think the idea of a bigger/cheaper conscript squad is much more unique and thematically fitting than weapon upgrades. It also makes merge better. Overall, I love the concept (and it's reminiscent of something I've posted before!)
The cover bonus might be too much, though. Halve it, maybe? And is it too good with Hit the Dirt?

I'm pretty sure that the sergeant model has some issues. Winter version is broken, I think? Also lacks LoDs. I tried using it in a mod and it wasn't great. Guard with no cape is nice, though.
25 Apr 2019, 20:33 PM
#360
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 602

So here we have an upgrade that:
- Significantly reduces bleed with 15% reduced reinforcement cost and up to 17% better damage distribution (extra model).
- Increases the total healthpool by 17% (extra model).
- Increases individual dps by 15%~37% in cover and group dps by 17% (extra model), for a total dps increase of 34%~60% in cover.
- Increases veterancy gain by 20%.

But somehow a single dp upgrade would be too strong. :foreveralone:


420 IQ solutions to 69 IQ problems.
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