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OKW "grand offensive" game breaking?

22 Mar 2019, 15:53 PM
#1
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

I'm yet to see this commander in a 4vs4 as test games so few.

But five man squad with double Shrek and sprint ability... Anyone else getting flashbacks to old shrek Volkswagen blobs?

Only now they will have extra shrek and sprint. I don't think this will really be a problem in 1vs1, but 4vs4 this has the potential to be ultra cancer. Just shrek blob stall+stuka spam until command tiger, sounds like meta. But hey at least overwatch doctrine will see competition :p
22 Mar 2019, 17:01 PM
#2
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

The Shreckblob was a result of Panzershrecks being able to snipe infantry and squads getting a single panzershreck, which meant 80% of their anti-infantry power survived. They were also evenly distributed throughout the blob, so you couldn't focus down the AT squad then send in the tanks to fight the AI squads.

Panzerfusilier shrecks come in pairs, so you'll have to concentrate your AT on one or two squads which can then be dealt with much like you deal with AT PGrens or REs.

Furthermore, since AT weapons were changed to deal next to no damage to infantry, even giving shrecks back to Volks wouldn't be as strong now. There's a reason you don't see bazookas on Riflemen any more.
22 Mar 2019, 17:05 PM
#3
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

The sprint ability with shrecks seems excessive. But blobs of these would leave your opponents infantry in a great place to smack you around. I agree with Lago

And 2x shrecks means higher chance of dropping so rely on them too much and you're bound to give away free shit
22 Mar 2019, 17:06 PM
#4
avatar of blancat

Posts: 810

now okw : luchs-puma-command panther

future okw : luchs-puma-Tiger
22 Mar 2019, 17:41 PM
#8
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

Invised some posts for being offtopic and 1 for quoting it.

@OP It could be OP, but Pgrens with screcks can have sprint as well currently. Ofc those are 4 man.
22 Mar 2019, 17:48 PM
#9
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Mar 2019, 17:01 PMLago
The Shreckblob was a result of Panzershrecks being able to snipe infantry and squads getting a single panzershreck, which meant 80% of their anti-infantry power survived. They were also evenly distributed throughout the blob, so you couldn't focus down the AT squad then send in the tanks to fight the AI squads.

Panzerfusilier shrecks come in pairs, so you'll have to concentrate your AT on one or two squads which can then be dealt with much like you deal with AT PGrens or REs.

Furthermore, since AT weapons were changed to deal next to no damage to infantry, even giving shrecks back to Volks wouldn't be as strong now. There's a reason you don't see bazookas on Riflemen any more.


I think it's true what you say,but imo there's two things that you neglect to add

1: pgrens are 340mp and 9? Pop cap, they are not easy to horde and easy to drain. Pfuz have 5 levels of vet and are 250mp, 7pop? Much easier to blob.

2: I would argue Zooks were never good for blobs,you always lacked the pen and extra alpha "volley" damage from a old volk blob popping your Sherman despite them having faster reload. A PIV would always deflect enough shots to escape.

Shrek snipes happened but I think you're looking back with foggy memory, you would get a few snipes but it was far from a reliable thing. I would say it was the old vet 5 terminator volk vet that made them bulletproof that was the issue.

Anyone know how pf vet stacks up? Where's vipper when you need him.
22 Mar 2019, 19:02 PM
#10
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Invised some posts for being offtopic and 1 for quoting it.

@OP It could be OP, but Pgrens with screcks can have sprint as well currently. Ofc those are 4 man.


Problem is that PGs are expensive to buy as well to reinforce and they come later.


Changes mentioned on the changelog are only these ones:

Panzerfusiliers have been adjusted to better reflect their performance as a six man squad that can deal with a variety of situations when upgraded.

Population from 7 to 8
G43 sight bonus from 1.5 to 1.2
Veterancy 4 accuracy bonus removed.
Veterancy 4 now provides 1.15 capture and decapture rate


So the other vet values should be the ones in the outdated guide.

Unlocks the 'Flare' ability
+40% accuracy, +25% grenade and flare range
-20% weapon cooldown, -25% grenade and flare recharge, -23% received accuracy
1.15 capture and decapture rate
Passive sprint
22 Mar 2019, 19:07 PM
#11
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657

Panzerfusiliers should have been given a 2 Panzerbuchse upgrade instead of Shrecks.
22 Mar 2019, 19:35 PM
#12
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 464

plz leave poor OKW alone they did nothing wrong they just doing their badass part
22 Mar 2019, 23:03 PM
#13
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919

Panzerfusiliers should have been given a 2 Panzerbuchse upgrade instead of Shrecks.


This. Would be useful for 1vs1 without destroying 3vs3 and 4vs4.
23 Mar 2019, 00:09 AM
#14
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2



I think it's true what you say,but imo there's two things that you neglect to add

1: pgrens are 340mp and 9? Pop cap, they are not easy to horde and easy to drain. Pfuz have 5 levels of vet and are 250mp, 7pop? Much easier to blob.

2: I would argue Zooks were never good for blobs,you always lacked the pen and extra alpha "volley" damage from a old volk blob popping your Sherman despite them having faster reload. A PIV would always deflect enough shots to escape.

Shrek snipes happened but I think you're looking back with foggy memory, you would get a few snipes but it was far from a reliable thing. I would say it was the old vet 5 terminator volk vet that made them bulletproof that was the issue.

Anyone know how pf vet stacks up? Where's vipper when you need him.

Yeah pgren blobbing is at the very least fairly different from potential pfusi blobbing. That said, we're trying out a cost increase for pfusis in general (I dont even know why they were 250 tbh, I think basically all of us wanted them at 270-290 still).

Schreck snipes were actually not insignificant. A 3-6% chance to instantly pop a model PER squad, without vet. With vet, that wqs closer to a 5-10% chance. By no means reliable, but absolutely a considerable factor. More than that, volks were 235, okw had nothing else they wanted to spend their muni on besides schrecks, volks rifles are stronger than pfusi rifles in general, volks vet was insane, and each schreck hit on a vehicle gave like a full vet bar. Volks blobbing had A LOT more going for it.

And yeah, pfusis had their vet 4 and 5 combat bonuses removed, compared to the guide (as pointed out by elchino). Again, its basically 3 levels of combat vet with a little utility for 4 and 5.

Oh, I *think* we're also removing vet 5 sprint from pfusis.
23 Mar 2019, 07:48 AM
#15
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2


Yeah pgren blobbing is at the very least fairly different from potential pfusi blobbing. That said, we're trying out a cost increase for pfusis in general (I dont even know why they were 250 tbh, I think basically all of us wanted them at 270-290 still).
And yeah, pfusis had their vet 4 and 5 combat bonuses removed, compared to the guide (as pointed out by elchino). Again, its basically 3 levels of combat vet with a little utility for 4 and 5.

Oh, I *think* we're also removing vet 5 sprint from pfusis.


Increasing the price for Pzfussis would be a really good decision. OKW players will have a real choice to make:
- Do you want a strong start with cheaper Volks that can build cover or do you want have super flexible and better scaling infantry that slow your start?
- More expensive Pzfussis will also (hopefully) prevent Pzfussi-Blobbs with Doubleschrecks

23 Mar 2019, 15:00 PM
#16
avatar of Pereat

Posts: 56

On top of them being a bit too cheap it seemed like an oversight to leave pfusis AT grenades unlocked.
It made sense when they were 2cp but now OKW has AT nades + raketen all without teching. Suddenly the one weak point of OKW has shifted to having best starting AT options of all factions.

I also think teller mines are too strong for OKW. Ost doesn't have that strong of a light vehicle base so that might be more inline with the defensive nature of the faction. OKW having dominant vehicles + 50 muni mine that can knock out a 380mp 75fuel investment would be enough to win 1v1 games on its own. I know it takes 170 muni combined to plant it but it creates a huge imbalance on how mobile ones armies can be in a game.

It feels like the designers are double stacking okw abilities as per overwatch commander.
23 Mar 2019, 15:27 PM
#17
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

They need to be 4 man in moment when u buy them and then they can keep schreks but ai upgrade still give u six man as it is now. Best option for all.

Or replace schreks with panzerbuche
23 Mar 2019, 18:16 PM
#18
avatar of Fire and Terror

Posts: 306

the biggest problem is IMO 2 things:

cp0 snares removing one of okws primal weaknesses in the early game, which will pretty much make m3 builds obsolete and give okw even more snowball power.

Call in tiger which will make mech techbypass builds even more popular then they are currently since tiger is even more flexible then command panther
23 Mar 2019, 18:25 PM
#19
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

the biggest problem is IMO 2 things:

cp0 snares removing one of okws primal weaknesses in the early game, which will pretty much make m3 builds obsolete and give okw even more snowball power.

Call in tiger which will make mech techbypass builds even more popular then they are currently since tiger is even more flexible then command panther


This "weakness" being a cheese exploit basically, to be frank. Do consider though that 5 men Panzerfusiliers have worse rifle stats than Volksgrenadiers, so the advantage of nullifying the M3 cheese would come with the disadvantage of opening worse against Penals and Cons.

I do agree though that the Tiger call in has a risk of creating a new Command Panther meta.
23 Mar 2019, 18:41 PM
#20
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

Sprinting 5 man double schrecks seem a bit concerning to me. Probably shouldn't be able to sprint.

Also teller mines are cancer in every game mode. No mine should be able to 1 shot light vehicles. It'd be beter IMO if it was a 30 muni mine that only hit vehicles for normal damage or a 40 muni mine that does more damage but not as much as the teller. There's really no reason okw should have tellers IMO.
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