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Volks Incendiary Grenade

7 Mar 2019, 04:48 AM
#21
avatar of addvaluejack

Posts: 261



The fuse was added specifically because before that it was even worse than it is now, instant throw + no fuse = no way to dodge. You CAN dodge them, but you're still going to take a bit of damage, and the ability of the incendiary to deny cover is its strongest attribute. Volks can close in, throw a grenade and force the other squad to move exposing them to negative cover and damage to win the engagement.


The incomplete dodging thing is same for every grenade. Even the top players can not doge HE grenade perfectly every time, they usually took reduced damage like 20% ~ 30%.
7 Mar 2019, 04:59 AM
#22
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



The incomplete dodging thing is same for every grenade. Even the top players can not doge HE grenade perfectly every time, they usually took reduced damage like 20% ~ 30%.

And then are able to continue using that same cover. No dice for a flame nade
7 Mar 2019, 06:54 AM
#23
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 464

No volks are fine now they get their flame nade when the truck hits and it has a timer now not more nerf
7 Mar 2019, 08:18 AM
#24
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Fragmentation grenades are still anti-garrison though, the issue I have with Incendiary is the lack of response time you have to react to them, and they do a decent amount of damage from the explosion too, so it's not just about avoiding DoT.

Also, some arguments from the people that voted No would be nice, curious to know why you voted the way you voted.

Fragmentation grenades are far worse vs cover/garrison.

Changes to incendiary grenades should include:
Moved to specialized infatry

Flame explosion damaging all in hold False
Flame DOT damaging all in hold True
7 Mar 2019, 08:43 AM
#25
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

Incendiary grenade is needed for Volks because it´s the only way for OKW to remove a unit from cover. They don´t have a T0 mortar, they dont have a non-doctrinal flamer. It was a bit too good before but now it has a timer so IMO it´s fine.
7 Mar 2019, 08:56 AM
#26
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Incendiary grenade is needed for Volks because it´s the only way for OKW to remove a unit from cover. They don´t have a T0 mortar, they dont have a non-doctrinal flamer. It was a bit too good before but now it has a timer so IMO it´s fine.

There are solution about that like:
moving incendiary grenades to SP at vet 0 (maybe cost down to 280-260 with 2 MP-40)
Replacing Stuka with MHT
Requiring an upgrade for VG that would lock out ST44.
7 Mar 2019, 09:39 AM
#27
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 08:56 AMVipper

There are solution about that like:
moving incendiary grenades to SP at vet 0 (maybe cost down to 280-260 with 2 MP-40)
Replacing Stuka with MHT
Requiring an upgrade for VG that would lock out ST44.


Locking Volks out of STG44s for flame nade access and removing Stuka would make OKW a trash tier faction. Both USF and UKF are good now, Soviets remain strong. There is just no need to nerf OKW in such a way.
7 Mar 2019, 09:43 AM
#28
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Locking Volks out of STG44s for flame nade access and removing Stuka would make OKW a trash tier faction. Both USF and UKF are good now, Soviets remain strong. There is just no need to nerf OKW in such a way.

Imo the reason why Soviet/USF/UKF had to be buffed was that OKW where OP nerfing OKW is the way to start reducing the power level of early allied infatry.
7 Mar 2019, 09:46 AM
#29
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 09:43 AMVipper

Imo the reason why Soviet/USF/UKF had to be buffed was that OKW where OP nerfing OKW is the way to start reducing the power level of early allied infatry.

You want that power level to be reduced, but never explain why should it be reduced.
Its not like current Ost that does more then just mindlessly spamming grens struggles against any of the 3 allied factions, so ost being weak is not an excuse anymore and increasing TTK level across the board will only lead to CQC units roflstomping everything as mainlines no longer would be able to effectively engage and soften them up from a distance, cover play would also be diminished as it wouldn't do much against these CQC units.
7 Mar 2019, 10:00 AM
#30
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 08:56 AMVipper

There are solution about that like:
moving incendiary grenades to SP at vet 0 (maybe cost down to 280-260 with 2 MP-40)
Replacing Stuka with MHT
Requiring an upgrade for VG that would lock out ST44.
This is the best suggestion pls vipper go talk with modteam
7 Mar 2019, 10:20 AM
#31
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 09:43 AMVipper

Imo the reason why Soviet/USF/UKF had to be buffed was that OKW where OP nerfing OKW is the way to start reducing the power level of early allied infatry.


I completely agree here. Imo spot on.
7 Mar 2019, 11:54 AM
#32
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

IMO it could be behind a assault upgrade, costing muni and unlocking molotov clones since flamenades coul be a doctrinal upgrade for feuerstrum
trucks say hello
7 Mar 2019, 12:27 PM
#33
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


You want that power level to be reduced, but never explain why should it be reduced.
Its not like current Ost that does more then just mindlessly spamming grens struggles against any of the 3 allied factions, so ost being weak is not an excuse anymore and increasing TTK level across the board will only lead to CQC units roflstomping everything as mainlines no longer would be able to effectively engage and soften them up from a distance, cover play would also be diminished as it wouldn't do much against these CQC units.

Actually I have explained so many times that some people have politely ask me not repeat every time.

Yet because the TTK have been lowered so much it is the QCQ that have been buffed in the recent patches, (shock troops, Stormtroopers, Assault engineers, Cavalry riflemen...) and assault grenadier probably in the next patch. Imo it is about time that one stops buffing the DPS of units and start setting acceptable DPS for each time frame.

And no you are wrong it is actually high damage output that diminishes cover play.
7 Mar 2019, 15:36 PM
#34
avatar of mons7erz

Posts: 90

I voted yes, but not because of how quickly it throws, but for the input lag to move a unit. Its very difficult to move when you have delays on your input command, thus its probably not an animation issue (though a few extra frames would be okay) but a server issue
7 Mar 2019, 20:45 PM
#35
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1



Locking Volks out of STG44s for flame nade access and removing Stuka would make OKW a trash tier faction.


Why? Why would forcing them to spend a whopping 10-20 fuel and 100-150mp to force them to unlock stuff for their mainline make them a trash tier faction?

No one's locking anyone out of anything, were forcing some actual decision making on OKW...
7 Mar 2019, 20:50 PM
#36
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 12:27 PMVipper
And no you are wrong it is actually high damage output that diminishes cover play.


While i agree that TTK has been lower since WFA release, that line doesn't make any sense. If you have low TTK and you are not hugging cover, your units get melted. Inversely, high TTK makes cover less important.
The rework after release of COH2 is a clear example of this.

If you look at the FPS genre, you can more so clearly see this. Compare how ARMA/Rainbow Six/CS/Red Orchestra/PUBG games play against Battlefield/CoD/Planetside/Apex.

Maybe the term or concept you are referring to is reactive play. If engagements end too soon, gameplay is geared more towards who has better preparations instead of better reactions. The problem is not low TTK, it's the mid-late game DPS disparity between factions (which has been tone down quite a lot from the days of double 1919s and release Obers)


Ontopic: make it a clone of Lolotov? I voted is fine.

7 Mar 2019, 21:17 PM
#37
avatar of Farlon

Posts: 184



Why? Why would forcing them to spend a whopping 10-20 fuel and 100-150mp to force them to unlock stuff for their mainline make them a trash tier faction?

No one's locking anyone out of anything, were forcing some actual decision making on OKW...

We can do that if the trucks become free to call in.
7 Mar 2019, 21:27 PM
#38
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Mar 2019, 21:17 PMFarlon

We can do that if the trucks become free to call in.

All 3 allied factions need to pay for their weapons and nades additionally, yet they don't get any free/discounter tiers because of that.
7 Mar 2019, 21:58 PM
#39
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4


All 3 allied factions need to pay for their weapons and nades additionally, yet they don't get any free/discounter tiers because of that.


They all start with significantly more fuel though.
7 Mar 2019, 22:04 PM
#40
avatar of Farlon

Posts: 184



They all start with significantly more fuel though.

Have kinda cheaper tech too
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