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Greyhound could use some more AT DPS

9 Feb 2019, 05:39 AM
#1
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2665

Title. I mean, I understand that it's not really supposed to be a stuart or anything but the fact that it only sorta kinda beats a 222 and just has crazy low anti vehicle dps in general, but is also super squishy, seems kind of odd for such an expensive vehicle. It's over double the fuel cost of a 222, so it should at least solidly win that matchup IMO.
9 Feb 2019, 05:40 AM
#2
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2665

Unrelated, but it also seems to hit pretty much every object in the way of it. I had it shoot a stone wall in front of an mg garrison instead of the mg in the building on kholodny so many times that it broke the wall, and didn't hit the building once until the wall was broken.
9 Feb 2019, 05:43 AM
#3
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1278 | Subs: 2

I wish it had it's old 60 dmg back.
Nowadays it feels the .50 caliber does more vs scout cars than the main gun.
9 Feb 2019, 12:58 PM
#4
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3796

M8 Greyhound
The M8 is having its damage lowered to make it less effective against vehicles; its performance against infantry will remain unaffected.
• Damage from 60 to 40
• AoE damage changed from 0.8/0.28/0.04 to 1/0.42/0.06

they wanted it to be more of an AI LV and neutral vs LV

222 is dedicated LV hunter what did u expect ? are u saying the 222 should have no AI and AT ?
9 Feb 2019, 13:52 PM
#5
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 921 | Subs: 2


222 is dedicated LV hunter what did u expect ? are u saying the 222 should have no AI and AT ?

The 222's coaxial is actually quite good. Add to that the fact that the 2cm cannon does a nontrivial amount of damage to infantry (and tears them apart if theyre on the wrong side of solid cover), and the 222 actually has pretty good performance against infantry.
9 Feb 2019, 15:07 PM
#6
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 844

M8 Greyhound
The M8 is having its damage lowered to make it less effective against vehicles; its performance against infantry will remain unaffected.
• Damage from 60 to 40
• AoE damage changed from 0.8/0.28/0.04 to 1/0.42/0.06
Commander is still decent it would be really cool if they revert this change. Serioulsy if u want dive and kill rocket arty it takes so much time to kill
9 Feb 2019, 15:33 PM
#7
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

I don't think anybody would agree to buff greyhound any more after this patch. By letting it come earlier they made it an absolute monster, especially against okw. If it doesn't work against ostheer, so be it. Players can choose 3 commanders in their loadout, they don't have to use the same commander against both axis factions.
9 Feb 2019, 15:35 PM
#8
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13488 | Subs: 6

If you need more AT, that's what Stuart is for.
Greyhound is AI vehicle of Luchs caliber, it can damage vehicles, but its not meant to.
9 Feb 2019, 16:02 PM
#9
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1373

Why can´t it just be an AI specialist unit? It´s not under powered as it is, I don´t see why it should be buffed and made OP.
9 Feb 2019, 16:08 PM
#10
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1430 | Subs: 1

I don't know... I personally don't think if it went back to 60 damage if it would be OP. Even at 60 damage you rarely aren't going to be diving after full health light vehicles with it as a dedicated LV counter. Especially when you consider the tech revamp where it's so much easier to get AT gun or Stuart out for that purpose. When we're talking about heavier things like Puma or Luches when you factor in bounces and and misses the Greyhound is going to have a hard time even at 60 damage we're talking like what... 8 shots if it's at full health? I think for it's cost and timing it should scare off LVs a little better than it currently can.
9 Feb 2019, 17:25 PM
#11
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 5959 | Subs: 1


The 222's coaxial is actually quite good. Add to that the fact that the 2cm cannon does a nontrivial amount of damage to infantry (and tears them apart if theyre on the wrong side of solid cover), and the 222 actually has pretty good performance against infantry.

Actually the performance of the 2cm guns is a mess in this game since the units using them (222, luch, Centaur) use different mechanism for no good reason.

In a sense the same can be said for the Ostwind's gun that although higher caliber under-performs.
9 Feb 2019, 17:47 PM
#12
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2665

I think I now agree that its dps probably shouldn't go up. I think my issue with it might be that it seems to die so fast to other vehicles. Haven't had a ton of matchups against with vehicles against it yet but that's my guess. I'm open to the possibility that it might just be something I have to adjust to, but again, it is 60 fuel. If a luchs died that easily to like, 2 clown cars it'd be an issue too, even though it's an AI vehicle as well.

M8 Greyhound
222 is dedicated LV hunter what did u expect ? are u saying the 222 should have no AI and AT ?

Compare using the 222 on infantry to using the puma or AEC (which are both over double the fuel price) and you'll see how an actual dedicated LV hunter does against infantry. Granted, the puma and AEC both do much better against vehicles as designed.
9 Feb 2019, 18:20 PM
#13
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1839 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2019, 17:25 PMVipper
Actually the performance of the 2cm guns is a mess in this game since the units using them (222, luch, Centaur) use different mechanism for no good reason.


Don't know why you keep bringing this up, there are tons of weapons in the game that have multiple versions or types because the game is only historically flavoured and chooses gameplay over reality. Different mechanisms are used for either variety or different gameplay purposes.


There are three different types of the 88mm L/71 gun, Tommies Bren and UC Bren, 3 different types of MG 42 (with up to 7 different versions), 3 different types of G43, two different versions of the 75mm L/70, almost all standard issue rifles having up to three or more different versions, do I need to go on?
9 Feb 2019, 18:24 PM
#14
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

I think I now agree that its dps probably shouldn't go up. I think my issue with it might be that it seems to die so fast to other vehicles. Haven't had a ton of matchups against with vehicles against it yet but that's my guess. I'm open to the possibility that it might just be something I have to adjust to, but again, it is 60 fuel. If a luchs died that easily to like, 2 clown cars it'd be an issue too, even though it's an AI vehicle as well.


222 is the outlier here if anything, not the greyhound. Consider that even an AT vehicle like AEC gets killed by double 222 if it has no AT support. Usf at least can go for a stuart if they feel the need to.

You can't really think of 222 as if it was m3. It is a higher tier vehicle, but its price has been reduced to m3 level for some weird reasons.
9 Feb 2019, 18:37 PM
#15
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 5959 | Subs: 1



Don't know why you keep bringing this up, there are tons of weapons in the game that have multiple versions or iterations because the game is only historically flavoured and chooses gameplay over reality. Different mechanisms are used for either variety or different gameplay purposes.


There are three different 88mm L/71 guns, Tommies Bren and UC Bren, 3 different types of MG 42 (with up to 7 different versions), 3 different types of G43, almost all standard issue rifles having up to three or more different versions, do I need to go on?

And I don't know why you keep responding, in addition I did not bring up the performance of 222's 2cm gun J did. I simply pointed that it is inconstant.

There this no case of variety or game play here. It is simply different solutions to similar issues that are confusing for the user who needs to know exactly how each of these weapons behaves to get the maximum out of them.

If the fragile RW crew had its target size "brought in-line" and the HMG-34 crew had its "weapon brought in line" for consistency reasons the same should be done about these weapons.
9 Feb 2019, 18:44 PM
#16
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3796

the 222 AI power is low but stronger than puma for a single reason, it has paper armor, so at least when unit with smg gets close it can do something
9 Feb 2019, 18:55 PM
#17
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1839 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2019, 18:37 PMVipper
There this no case of variety or game play here. It is simply different solutions to similar issues that are confusing for the user who needs to know exactly how each of these weapons behaves to get the maximum out of them.


But there is, since the 222 is an AT vehicle with decent AI power while the Luchs is an AI vehicle with decent AT power. The vehicles serve different roles (gameplay) in different factions (variety). The fact that they happen to share a similar (not the same) gun IRL doesn't matter for the game. It's exactly the same for the HMG 42 dealing suppression while the LMG 42 only does damage despite being the exact same weapon IRL. But whatever.
9 Feb 2019, 19:06 PM
#18
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2665



Don't know why you keep bringing this up, there are tons of weapons in the game that have multiple versions or types because the game is only historically flavoured and chooses gameplay over reality. Different mechanisms are used for either variety or different gameplay purposes.


There are three different types of the 88mm L/71 gun, Tommies Bren and UC Bren, 3 different types of MG 42 (with up to 7 different versions), 3 different types of G43, two different versions of the 75mm L/70, almost all standard issue rifles having up to three or more different versions, do I need to go on?

My favorite is the 3 vastly different types of stgs in the game rn.



222 is the outlier here if anything, not the greyhound. Consider that even an AT vehicle like AEC gets killed by double 222 if it has no AT support. Usf at least can go for a stuart if they feel the need to.

You can't really think of 222 as if it was m3. It is a higher tier vehicle, but its price has been reduced to m3 level for some weird reasons.

Yeah I think you're right. AEC also has rather low armor that makes it really easy for 222s to pen tho, and doesn't have that much dps. Same deal with the greyhound I guess, but the latter point is accentuated.
9 Feb 2019, 19:30 PM
#19
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3009 | Subs: 1

There is a difference between different dps profiles and different machanics entirely. Different dps' can be chalked up to the skills of the unit using it (guards vs conscripts for example, in theory guards are better trained and therfore can make better use of the same weapon)
Now of guard nagants were dealing aoe damage we might find that a bit strange no?
9 Feb 2019, 19:32 PM
#20
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 921 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Feb 2019, 17:25 PMVipper

Actually the performance of the 2cm guns is a mess in this game since the units using them (222, luch, Centaur) use different mechanism for no good reason.

I think balance is a pretty good reason...
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