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Balance and Bugfix Patch – Feb 7th 2109 - discuss

8 Feb 2019, 17:01 PM
#41
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 779




Are you really playing as USF? How can one guy have 4 Jackson and 4 M8A1 with 100 pop limit?

Also, M8A1 is powerful because it's a 75 fuel AI only, 400 HP fragile vehicle.

Please show your playercard, so others can judge your opinion as inbalance or L2P issue.


Some days ago I had a 3vs3 versus 2 soviets and 1 US. After 60min bouth soivets owned a M8A1 and one Soviet a Jackson.

The US had 3-4 M8A1 and multible Jacksons and some rifemen, while I as Ost had full popcap with 1 Panther, 2 Grens, 2 PaKs, 2 Pios and one Arty. The game was long, I had enough ressources, but no Popcap. The only way at that point would be to let all my inf and paks die and build 4 Panthers to hunt the Jacksons, but versus the inf? Every infantry we killed incresed his potential to get even more tanks. And Ostheer without PaK40 or Pnzgrn+Schrecks is unplay-able.

What did the US do? Simple, he didn't attacked. He killed all inf and Paks with the M8A1 blobb, managed it to save ress and simply left his vehicles to get more Jacksons.

That mechanic is brocken. He is able to get an with ~130 - 150 popcap by that shit.



StuG E is shit in comparison. M8A1 is way too good, fast, good HP, self-repair and 2 shots most units. It is a Brummbär with more rage and more accuracy.


Only the fact that US can do that is enough to nerf or remove that Funktion.






Edit: for you maths:

- 1 M8A1 Pop of 6 -> decrew it and you only need 4 Pop.
- 1 Jackson Pop of 16 -> decrew it and you only need 4 Pop.

Now, let say you have 100 pop-cap, 2 Jacksons and one M8A1. Decrew them = now you only have Pop of 74 and build one extra Jackson, also decrew this tank and you can build an extra Jackson, also decrew this one and you can build again… an extra Jackson.

= Now, now you have 1 M8A1 and... 5 Jacksons. = That would be now an army with Pop of 148 and he could still make it higher. That is fair?

100-(12+12+2)=74 *an army with 2 left Jacksons and one left M8A1
74+16-12=78 *3 decrewed Jacksons + 1 decrewed M8A1
78+16-12=82 *4 decrewed Jacksons + 1 decrewed M8A1
82+16-12=86 *5 decrewed Jacksons + 1 decrewed M8A1

Now... he can still build 2 extra M8A1 by that way.

8 Feb 2019, 18:00 PM
#42
avatar of JZuna

Posts: 129

So I have been using the recon doctrine and noticed a bug, the airdropped combat group is actually available at 2cp instead of 3cp so US can get paratrooper at 2cp while patch notes clearly state it should be at 3cp.
8 Feb 2019, 18:19 PM
#43
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6241 | Subs: 1

snip


I'm gonna pinch that bubble but unless you can program it, make it so that thousands of people test it to debug it and actually like the change, it's nor worth wasting thought time on an feature which is so low in the imaginary collective issues chart.

Also, offtopic which you might want to make a thread for it.
8 Feb 2019, 20:04 PM
#44
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3910

to really fix JLI u need to fix the crit

More specifically the potential damage to 75% crit compared to 40%
it's 60 damage vs 32 potential damage

just lower the crit to 50 % and add another sniper rifle

so pathfinder have more fire rate less potential damage but more consistent

while JLI have more potential damage but less fire rate and consistency

the cover bonus would not really be a problem if the potential damage is lower
9 Feb 2019, 00:01 AM
#45
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2679

Wow I like a lot of these changes. Haven’t played with it yet but the assengies nerf makes a lot of sense and the reduced reinforce cost balances that out nicely. Love the changes to recon support company; I think it’ll be a lot more playable now and I’m glad they increased the cooldown on the IR paths to compensate.

Any particular reason the valentine is called a “command tank” now? Does it give some aura or something?

Jaeger nerf seems a bit too light (I still think 0.9 acc against cover with the sniper breaks infantry matchups and needs to go altogether) but better something small than nothing at all or a massive overnerf.
9 Feb 2019, 00:10 AM
#46
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6244 | Subs: 1

...

Any particular reason the valentine is called a “command tank” now? Does it give some aura or something?
...

Units limited to 1 (that are not super heavy or "officers") seem to be "command units".
9 Feb 2019, 00:27 AM
#47
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13674 | Subs: 7


In 3vs3 and 4vs4 you can easy habe ~4 of them + ~4 Jacksons and some inf too. The problem is in lagre multiplayer, not in 1vs1.

In 3v3 and 4v4 passive players who let opponents amass armies are the problem, not any specific quirk of any specific faction.

Maybe instead of building these 4 caches by 5th minute you should have built an actual army to take away opponents resources?
9 Feb 2019, 01:48 AM
#48
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2679



Some days ago I had a 3vs3 versus 2 soviets and 1 US. After 60min bouth soivets owned a M8A1 and one Soviet a Jackson.

The US had 3-4 M8A1 and multible Jacksons and some rifemen, while I as Ost had full popcap with 1 Panther, 2 Grens, 2 PaKs, 2 Pios and one Arty. The game was long, I had enough ressources, but no Popcap. The only way at that point would be to let all my inf and paks die and build 4 Panthers to hunt the Jacksons, but versus the inf? Every infantry we killed incresed his potential to get even more tanks. And Ostheer without PaK40 or Pnzgrn+Schrecks is unplay-able.

What did the US do? Simple, he didn't attacked. He killed all inf and Paks with the M8A1 blobb, managed it to save ress and simply left his vehicles to get more Jacksons.

That mechanic is brocken. He is able to get an with ~130 - 150 popcap by that shit.



StuG E is shit in comparison. M8A1 is way too good, fast, good HP, self-repair and 2 shots most units. It is a Brummbär with more rage and more accuracy.


Only the fact that US can do that is enough to nerf or remove that Funktion.






Edit: for you maths:

- 1 M8A1 Pop of 6 -> decrew it and you only need 4 Pop.
- 1 Jackson Pop of 16 -> decrew it and you only need 4 Pop.

Now, let say you have 100 pop-cap, 2 Jacksons and one M8A1. Decrew them = now you only have Pop of 74 and build one extra Jackson, also decrew this tank and you can build an extra Jackson, also decrew this one and you can build again… an extra Jackson.

= Now, now you have 1 M8A1 and... 5 Jacksons. = That would be now an army with Pop of 148 and he could still make it higher. That is fair?

100-(12+12+2)=74 *an army with 2 left Jacksons and one left M8A1
74+16-12=78 *3 decrewed Jacksons + 1 decrewed M8A1
78+16-12=82 *4 decrewed Jacksons + 1 decrewed M8A1
82+16-12=86 *5 decrewed Jacksons + 1 decrewed M8A1

Now... he can still build 2 extra M8A1 by that way.


Muh historical accuracy XD

Maybe instead of complaining on the forums you should figure out what happened that your team lost a 3v2 for like 15 minutes until tanks started coming out. Almost like you pay for it when you can't punish the other team for fighting a 3v2 and having one guy just sit in the back playing lend lease for a while.
9 Feb 2019, 02:31 AM
#49
avatar of #12345678

Posts: 69


Muh historical accuracy XD

Maybe instead of complaining on the forums you should figure out what happened that your team lost a 3v2 for like 15 minutes until tanks started coming out. Almost like you pay for it when you can't punish the other team for fighting a 3v2 and having one guy just sit in the back playing lend lease for a while.


LOL USF lend lease.

That's why I don't reply him anymore.

Also, a M8A1 Gun Carrier cost 10 pop cap. I just played it and check it.
9 Feb 2019, 05:23 AM
#50
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1043

Nothing about patching blatantly op allied AA(centaur, m5)
10 Feb 2019, 01:30 AM
#51
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 869

Nothing about patching blatantly op allied AA(centaur, m5)



What would your suggestion be with regards to the only AA these 2 factions have (outside of pintle on ISU / IS2) vs what axis have:


Ost:

222
Ostwind
P4 Pintle
Panther Pintle
Tiger Pintle

OKW:

Flak HT
Flak Emplacement
T4
Ostwind
P4 Pintle
Panther Pintle
King Tiger Pintle

Centuar is expensive in both fuel and pop cap to be the only AA unit. M5 is much better in regards to that but still requires a hefty muni investment, meanwhile both Axis factions have access to relatively cheap AA and numerous sources. Lets not forget what the most dominant Air ability is right now.
10 Feb 2019, 01:42 AM
#52
avatar of cochosgo

Posts: 274

Overwatch planes still loiter for like half minute after the ability circle has disappeared. This is currently my biggest issue with the ability right now. It keeps going on and on and on and thats time you are locked inside your base while they are caping the map, which in turn will become flares for free.

JLI still far too good for their cost and this doctrine its still being played in every match.

I've never seen such a terrible state of balance in my three years of playing. Every match as allies is a stresful 40 minute session against this doctrine.
10 Feb 2019, 07:50 AM
#53
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6244 | Subs: 1

...
I've never seen such a terrible state of balance in my three years of playing. Every match as allies is a stresful 40 minute session against this doctrine.

I am pretty sure during the Penal with flamer Patch and ourah and then Penals to Dhsk to M4C Patch or the during the broken USF mortar Patch, for example, the game was in much worse state...
10 Feb 2019, 09:33 AM
#54
avatar of capiqua
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 974 | Subs: 2

KV8 shown with another icon in the cells:
10 Feb 2019, 14:17 PM
#55
avatar of Euan

Posts: 95

Valentine limited to one is a great way to rebalance that, Valentine spam was OP as hell before.

I was just about to make a thread about it, it was just as bad as JLI in terms of skill-less meta cheese nonsense ruining a lot of games, but for some reason nobody was discussing it as much.

We know from experience that it's previous 6CP state was totally useless though, so kudos to the balance team for thinking about it in depth, and coming up with a good solution.

Also nice that we're doing incremental small changes now instead of the silly quad nerfs / quad buffs that were happening before, on the other hand good to keep the Valentine's vision ability in mind for the future now that there can be only one of them, as it feels a bit uselessly short range at the moment.
10 Feb 2019, 22:16 PM
#56
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1043

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Feb 2019, 14:17 PMEuan


I was just about to make a thread about it, it was just as bad as JLI in terms of skill-less meta cheese nonsense ruining a lot of games, but for some reason nobody was discussing it as much.



The obvious reason is that allied biased players badly outnumber axis biased ones on this forum. Litterally 10 separate threads about JLI op and probably just one thread about valentines.
10 Feb 2019, 22:18 PM
#57
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1043




What would your suggestion be with regards to the only AA these 2 factions have (outside of pintle on ISU / IS2) vs what axis have:


Ost:

222
Ostwind
P4 Pintle
Panther Pintle
Tiger Pintle

OKW:

Flak HT
Flak Emplacement
T4
Ostwind
P4 Pintle
Panther Pintle
King Tiger Pintle

Centuar is expensive in both fuel and pop cap to be the only AA unit. M5 is much better in regards to that but still requires a hefty muni investment, meanwhile both Axis factions have access to relatively cheap AA and numerous sources. Lets not forget what the most dominant Air ability is right now.


Centaur, m5 have are guaranteed to shoot down all planes on their first pass. Never seen any survivors. At least lower it to 50% on first pass and 50% on second and they'd still be so much better than axis AA counterparts.
10 Feb 2019, 22:44 PM
#58
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 22

M8 spam seems to be replacing valentine spam from last patch.
12 Feb 2019, 08:23 AM
#59
avatar of Bratkartoffel

Posts: 21

I wonder why no one talks about sturmtiger!? Since they are not able to fix projectile collision, I see only very little use for this unit.

Maybe nice against Brit with bunker, but otherwise i would always pick kingtiger over it! Don't see that actual changes to unit makes any difference!



12 Feb 2019, 14:44 PM
#60
avatar of Princeps

Posts: 64

I wonder why no one talks about sturmtiger!? Since they are not able to fix projectile collision, I see only very little use for this unit.

Maybe nice against Brit with bunker, but otherwise i would always pick kingtiger over it! Don't see that actual changes to unit makes any difference!





And they never will. Yesterday i got him to vet5 and win the game.
2vs2 on semosky winter i think. o_O

In the Lategame the unit preservation got worse and worse, so get some lucky shots off. U can snipe paks and annihilate Buildings quite good.
And against moving Tanks just go backwards in your lines and cover with Pfaust.

The only risk is the collison..... but "just fire when u have a clear field" :)
The first ten mins on the field the enemy try to fight it but after that just auto retreat :megusta:

The vet 1 ability is bullshit. Why no sherman smoke?
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